Go have a look at a very well done B-17 by Tonino!

Discussion in 'Aircraft & Aviation' started by Leif Oh, Aug 28, 2004.

  1. Tonino

    Tonino Member


    not only I saw Griff Wason's site, but I am afraid I have just found there a great image of the Le Rhone engine I was lookin for to improve my Fokker (I'm not an expert but isn't it the one who equipped the triplane?).

    Now that the "beta" engine is completed, I'm afraid I'll have to restart all over again... I cannot resist to the tempation (Gil, what have you done to me?)...
  2. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    Uh, oh.......
    You do realize that MM kit is in 1:50 scale?
  3. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

    A quick and dirty first solution to the engine problem

    On the engines issue, and while we wait for Gil's major effort, I remember fiddling with another photo of the Williams Bros' P&W 9-cylinder engine above in order to improve the engines of my Fly Model B-24 Liberator kit.

    Out of the 9 cylinders, I made two staggered 7-cylinder rows, to simulate a Twin Wasp engine, which is what they used in the Liberator (the Fly Model kit featured 2x9 cylinder rows, which must be a major mistake I think). For the B-17 I think it is might still be an improvement, although it isn't a Wright Cyclone.

    A layered Photoshop file of the result is is available in the parts bin.

    It looks kind of quaint when you just see it in a front view, but remember there are three layers: Front cover (discard if something better can be had from your kit); front row of 7 cylinders; and a staggered back row of 7 cylinders).

    Quick and dirty, it might still be a considerable improvement on the original just to print the two rows, laminate them on thick card (black edge colouring for the cylinders), add pushrods, and mount the rows with suitable separation.

  4. cecil_severs

    cecil_severs Member

    Okay, A B-17 thread is just too enticing to not jump into. I've got another large scale B-17 at home. I think that it's an Alpha Kit model. Has anyone else seen or built this one? Impressions? I'll confirm the details when I get home tonight and if I can get a decent pic of the cover I'll post it.

  5. Gil

    Gil Active Member


    Nice trick! Excellent method for quick and painless model improvement. Why don't you cut out a cylinder from the picture and use the keystone removal tool to stretch it over a paper half-cylinder to make the first cylinder row. The first 3D row can then be afixed to a flat copy of the second row. The lack of the 3D effect won't be noticeable that far back in the shadows. Construct a truncated cone for the crankcase/gear box, position a shaft and voila..., an impressive engine without a whole lot of development.

    Cecil, I haven't any information on Alpha. I'm curious to find out though. So glad that you've felt the need to be "sucked in" to this thread.

    Best regards, Gil
  6. jrts

    jrts Active Member


    Taken and filed away until the model gets here.
    Already drooling over this and I've not even seen it yet :lol:

    Thanks for the download


  7. Gil

    Gil Active Member


    The answer to your question regarding the engine type used on the Fokker Dr. I is officially the Oberursel UII 110 HP rotary engine. The engine was a copy of the Le Rhone. The Le Rhone is identified by the copper induction piping leading from the crankcase to the upper end of the cylinder. These can be effectively created by embossing half forward profiles from copper foil.

    Ths is one of the better stories from that period. Tony Fokker had bought Oberursel when he couldn't get Daimler-Benz engines for his designs. He complained incessantly to the RLM over this issue until Rheinhard Platz designed the D-7 using the Daimler which went into full production. The problem then was what to do with all these Oberursel engines lying about? The D-8 solved that problem....,

    The most favored engine by all sides was the Clerget with many of the German Aces re-equiped their aircraft to use captured "prize" Clergets.

    Best regards, Gil
  8. bfam4t6

    bfam4t6 Member

    Well I'm glad to see you guys so enthused about adding more engine detail. I personally know very little about engines and even if I did I still no nothing about designing. Well that is designing using a computer anyways. I will defintely continue to follow your progress Gil. I have seen your gallery and know you are capable of very wonderful work.

    Also, I would love to see some pictures of your progress when you get the chance Tonino.

    ...Yes unfortunetly that is about the only thing I do know about the kit. I'm only hoping that it wont be drowned in mistakes and inaccuracies. If anyone can point me in the direction of a review or better yet pictures of the MM kit I'd be very thankful.
  9. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    Name of the designer, Wieslaw Baczkowski, and the year it was published -1991 does not sound too promising...

    The model will certainly be buildable, but it will require some effort. I do not know about any review of this kit, but I built couple of his other planes and with some tweaking, sanding and retouching, it should look good.
  10. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Wright Cyclone R-1820-97

    Hello All,

    Work has begun on the Wright Aeronautical Corporation Cyclone R-1820-97 Series G200.

    The following photographs were gleaned off the web and processed in Photoshop to bring out design detail not apparent in the originals. Officially this is called Aviation Archaeology. I'm finding that there doesn't seem to be any line drawings of piston aircraft engines anywhere on the web which is interesting. More as it comes in....,

    Best regards, Gil
  11. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

    B-17G now sold out!

    I notice that the page at the French Model's Centrum for the Fly Model B-17G now says "Run out", flashing in red. You guys must have picked up the last remaining copies.

    Well, like I said, "sour grapes" is an excellent strategy for keeping in good mood.

  12. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

    Quick jpg-version of Twin Wasp

    For those who do not have access to Photoshop or similar programs which can read layered files, a high quality jpg-file with separated layers of crankcase cover, front row, and back row of cylinders has been uploaded to the Parts Bin.

    A “quick and dirty†way of improving engines in older kits with radial twin engines, such as the Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp (B-24 Liberator and others) is to print this in the required number of copies, laminate on thick card, edgecolour cylinders with black, and add pins for pushrods.

    Add as many layers of the front cover as you like between the rows to provide suitable distance. Retain crankcase part of engine from your kit, if it is deemed salvageable.


    PS. I notice that not many have caught on to the ingenious little prop-making tool by Tonino, availble in another section of the Parts Bin. Go get it now - it's really good.
  13. cecil_severs

    cecil_severs Member


    Your "quick and dirty" engine solution looks great! It's very similar to the way that Ed Bertschy did his on the "Phoenix". I'll try to get some good photos of it as soon as it's done. Right now I'm just trying to finish it for Fridays' ASM meeting.

    I can see this technique as a standard replacement for all of those single flat disk radials used on so many models.

  14. cecil_severs

    cecil_severs Member

    For those still thirsting for B-17 models PMI has the GPM one listed on their "special" page:

    :arrow: http://www.papermodels.net/special.html

    They also have the B-24 from both FM and GPM. :p

    BTW, I will definitely pull out the Alpha kit B-17 tonight. I was kinda outa it last night after senior doubles tennis. :(

  15. jrts

    jrts Active Member

    Hi all

    My Fly Model B-17 has landed.

    The package got here without a scratch on it, but when I opened the model up I was a bit discouraged to find all the sheets had print problems.

    The fist photo shows a black line from top to bottom, this is on all but one page. The second and third photo shows the ink blots that are on all the pages, some are quite big.

    Its a shame that this thing is going to have to be altered before I can even start a build on it. I would have scaned it anyway but thats not the point.
    Even with the print problems it still looks a good model, I can't say how it fits ect until I start to build it!!
    Just thought I would post this so we can compare the kits from other publishers to this one and if any others have the same problems.

    If it was not for you guys and gals running the how to do threads I would not be able to alter this myself. So for thoese of you who are in the know and share your skills thanks for the help your work is greatly appreciated.
    See we do take note of all the lessons :lol:


  16. Leif Oh

    Leif Oh Member

    Sources on this site for amending the B-17G

    Rob (and others)

    I can well imagine your disappointment about the bad printing. Perhaps we could turn that into a good thing. You might want to attempt a little bit of recolouring while you're at it. The B17 certainly deserves a little bit better scheme than what seems to be printed.

    I routed out a few resources on this site which might be helpful (and I quote them here, mainly because there might be newcomers who have not found them yet, and then it's sometimes handy to have them collected in one place):

    • "Color reference in Federal Standard", by Gil.

    • "Redrawing and Coloring a Model File with The GIMP", by Ryan Short, part I, and part II.

    Then I reposted some of my own attempts, from the old site, which I thought might deserve a new lease of life:

    • "Sources for correct aircraft colour schemes".

    • "A beginner's five first steps in recolouring".

    • "Recolouring II: Converting a Vimy into G-EAOU".

    Phew! That took some posting - I think I'll rest up a bit now, perhaps cut & glue some paper...

  17. jrts

    jrts Active Member

    Hi Leif

    I got the links you posted before and went straight to them.
    You are right it will be good to have a go at a good old kit bash. Even more so as Tonino's extras are going in to it, I might as well go the whole hog and try a recolour :lol:

    My sacnner is doing over time now :roll:

    Its always worth reiterating a good this some will always miss it :!:

    Thanks again for all the help


  18. bfam4t6

    bfam4t6 Member

    Well Rob your Fly Model is just like mine. I have numerous little ink spills all over it. Also, I got the GPM kit in the mail this week and although it was just printed in July, it has similar problems, although they are fewer.

    Also, I got the Maly Modelarz kit in the mail today. It definitely needs some work before i can start building it. The paper is basically yellowed construction paper. I will for sure scan it and print it on better paper, and this also may be a good time for me to learn to recolor things. The colors look good to me, but there are many white spots and other imperfections. I may even rescale it to 1/33.
  19. jrts

    jrts Active Member

    Hi Dustin

    I did hope that it was just a one off. The Maly kit does look as if its been through the wars already. It just goes to show the difference between publishers after all apart from the paint work its the same plane!!.

    I must admit if I had seen the quality of the Maly kit in a store I would have walked right on by and left it on the shelf :roll:

    Lets know how you get on with the kits with regard to fit ect.
    It should be good fun doing the recolour Iam crap with the old computor :lol:


  20. bfam4t6

    bfam4t6 Member

    Does anyone know if the Fly Model B-17G at the following site is a recolor, or did Fly Model actually release a blue version along with the dark green version that all of us seem to have.


    It seems to have to mismatched shades between a few part such as the tail, and between the front half and back half of the fuselage. Anyways, I'm just curious to see if anyone knows anything about it.

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