Global Warming - A man made problem or a tax opportunity?

Discussion in 'Zealot Archives' started by BazookaJo, Mar 25, 2007.

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  1. BazookaJo

    BazookaJo Member

    Hi guys

    Saw a very interesting debate on UK's Channel 4 called "The Great Global Warming Swindle".

    It basically presented some VERY interesting historical data which seemed to contradict the current train of thought that global warming is a man-made phenomenon.

    Now I've been up there with the doom-mongers for quite a while, but after seeing this program I'm downright sceptical. Basically like everyone else I've accepted everything I've been told on the subject, when there ARE definite and sound arguments to the contrary.

    Basically it showed that the earth's temperature has allways been controlled by Solar activity and that this trend is simply continuing as normal. When you see something like this you realise how much little debate there is around this subject in a political environment where anything said to the contrary is heracy.

    And of course the UK government is loving it as it means that they can whack a load of new taxes on us, call them green, and take the moral high ground.

    And the US? I reckon you guys are about to follow suit. I'm guessing it will make little or no difference in the amount of carbon fuels that are used - You'll just pay a lot more for the priveledge of using them.

    Seriously check it out - especially "The Arguments" section, and if anyone can find it online let me know.


  2. cmdrted

    cmdrted Active Member

    This just shows how we are manipulated by our industries and how the government Kowtows to them. In the 70s during our "fuel crisis" I was in the Navy aboard Nuke subs. We heard of the gas crisis and people buying on even and odd days, and how there was no oil on the way to the US. Well we were coming off patrol trying to reach CONUS and litterally had to weave our way through miles of ocean filled with laden oil tankers. It was a tough debate in the wardroom about sinking a few of the greedy suckers and makeing the crisis real!
  3. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    I have my own personal opinion on the subject but hesitate to share it as political issues are forbidden on this site for the reason that they are very volatile and divisive (I have personally had to get the taste of shoe leather out of my mouth on this site) and I think should be avoided.
  4. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    I saw the program as well. The final conclusion that millions of 3rd world people will continue to suffer and die as a result of being denied electricity was a real eye-opener. Millions die each year from lung and other cancers because they live in housing with an open fire, for example. And mosquitoes are quite happy living in cold climates, and fully capable of spreading malaria; no need for global warming to turn the Norfolk Broads into a malarial swamp! Another lie! But not being able to refrigerate vaccines and other medicines, now that can, and does, kill millions. Now. Not in the future. NOW.

    The west is trying to wean itself off fossil fuels because it doesn't want to be in the grip of those that hold the worlds energy resources, namely Russia, China, Africa and the Middle East. Saving the planet has got absolutely nothing to do with it!!


    PS The chap who was predicting the weather via sun spots, and had made a small fortune betting on the results against official predictions, clinched it for me!
  5. Kaz

    Kaz Member

    willja67 is right, however without saying that Mrs. Thatcher started it all (at least in this country......) Of course its a tax.
    Im old enough to remember the 70's when we were heading for an iceage, (and how we scoffed at that during the summer of 76) Oh the scary things that came out then...
    However we do need to conserve, or at least find new methods of generating power, and if that means a tax, well at least we can blame the French, for it was our war with them that started income tax.
  6. sdk2knbk

    sdk2knbk Guest

    All I can say is that it is frighteningly easy to persuade the masses to believe almost anything, good or bad, and they certainly are trying VERY hard with GW lately...

    Scott K.
  7. It's manbearpig! <obscure southpark reference off/> Lots and lots of money in govt grants flowing to scientists who are in line with this whole thing. If you can believe what you read, only 1/3 of 1% of the CO2 in the atmosphere is attributable to man's industrialization. But it sure sounds like a lot when they present in raw tonnage, (which is why they present it that way to begin with) but it's actually a drop in the bucket. Oh my God, now that I'm thinking about it, we're major contributors! Cutting down all those trees to make paper models. Trees rid the atmosphere of CO2 and give off oxygen! We're all doooomed!!!
  8. Darwin

    Darwin Member

    Having been an enrollee in one of the very first Environmental Engineering postgraduate programs in the country (so damned new that they didn't even have a name for the department) and having worked in environmental restoration for the last 16 years, I have only one comment....follow the money. You want to get a real handle of what is happening, get a copy of Kruschev Remembers (vol. II) and actuall read it. From what I see of the future of my kids, they are going to living in a society where (if they are very lucky) they will have a mobility of about a 100 mile radius from their hovel (because that is about as far as they can go and have enough charge left to get back home), all the while applauding the elite because they accomplish their energy-lavish lifestyle through purchase of energy credits (from companies they happen to own themselves.) The Scientific Method is dead...long live the inquisition.
  9. jparenti

    jparenti Member

    As willja said, political issues are unsafe territory. But the biggest problem is that global climate change has become a political issue. It's actually a scientific theory, which has its own set of problems.
    As with many scientific issues that get mainstream media attention, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of the extremes. Global climate change has a rich history that goes back to the formation of our atmosphere. At one point in history, there wasn't any oxygen in the atmosphere, now we've got a nice comfortable (for humans, anyway) 21%. Sometimes it was hotter than it is now. Sometimes it was colder. Sometimes glaciers kilometers thick bulldozed the land clear, in places where it now regularly becomes 110 degrees F in the summer.
    The truth is probably this: The world is changing, just like it always does. There's no conspiracy. There's no threat of ultimate disaster or an ice age that will peak within days. We pump lots of CO2 into the atmosphere, which makes an effect, probably a noticeable one, but we can't have the same climate forever, no matter what we do.
    So go ahead and buy hybrids or electrics to drive to work. Replace your light bulbs with compact flourescents. Try to make less of an impact on the environment... not to prevent disaster, but because this is the only planet we have, and we don't need to strip it clean!
    We cling pretty precariously to a small percentage of this rock. We've done good surviving so far, and we'll probably keep it up. But don't take it for granted.

    Hmmm. Was that preachy? :grin:
  10. Well said jparenti. I guess I'll keep on building paper models after all :) I was going to give the hobby up for the sake of the planet, but now I think I'll just cut my paper weight from 110 Lb down to 65 lb. Seriously though, well said.

  11. jparenti

    jparenti Member

    Too many physics and geology classes... and a general mistrust for media outlets. Okay, so I watch the news, but I don't say, "It must be true! The TV guys said so!" :)
    I recycle my scrap paper. We have a box at work. When a model gets old or outdated or (gasp) misfortune befalls it, I throw it in the recycle bin. It makes me feel better, and it helps cut down on the number of trees we have to chop down. Not because I'm a tree hugger... but because I like trees!
  12. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    Political issues aside.

    The facts are damn clear. Go watch the movie 'An Inconvient Truth'. If the governments and industries of the world do not think about their impact on the environment and do something now. Life on the planet with be like a splinter in the skin of the Earth. The splinter is the foreign object which the skin rejects.

    Unfortunately as it is. We have already started some problems which may not be corrected in OUR lifetime. Whole sheets of ice are gone in a few decades that have existed for centuries. Things like permafrost in Siberia which is now thawing releasing more greenhouse gases cannot be stopped.

    There isnt anything wrong with switching to alternative sources for energy and business practices. It's just greed and complacency that keeps us on track for doom.

    In Canada we have western provinces making massive sums of money where the residents pay NO sales tax and the other side of the country pays 14-15% TAX. There is NO reason why a province like Newfoundland which has abundant coastline, cannot build windfarms of transmissionless/constant speed windturbines to the point where THEY can export energy and not only be as profitable as the west but create a renewable source of energy with a future where the west will eventually mine out of tar sand.

    It's all about money. If you can see the $ then you can see a way to it done. It has nothing to do with Politics.
  13. SteveM

    SteveM Member

  14. thewoodengraver

    thewoodengraver Active Member

    The Earth is a living organism, and she will constantly evolve and change regardless of her " Visitors".

    Fear, is one of the most powerful Marketing Techniques.

    Waterworld??? biggie...I can swim.
  15. MOS95B

    MOS95B Member

    I can't. Next project, paper snorkel....


    I have no idea on this topic. Not smart enough to decipher the presented data. Too lazy to learn...

    Conservation in general, though, is a good thing. Can't hurt to recycle those cans, bottles, and old newspapers...
  16. BazookaJo

    BazookaJo Member

    I haven't seen 'An Inconvient Truth', but I will def. get around to it.

    As it happens, it was referred to in the program - in fact it showed one of the so-called peices of evidence from the film which was a graph showing the direct correlation between carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and the temperature of the planet. What it didn't show apparently was that the temperature rises were 800 YEARS prior to the increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere i.e. it is most likely that the increase in carbon dioxide was due to the increase in the planet's temperature not vice versa.

    Basically I do not see it as a political issue as I can't see any political party that isn't jumping on the bandwagon. Hell, now they've figure out they can get more cash of us....

    Billions is being spent on this GW thing, and god knows there are equally devastating things that man is doing to the planet that are NOT debatable where the cash could be arguably better spent.

    I guess it's just a reminder to us all - don't believe everything you hear, especially from a politician (of ANY party).
  17. Amazyah

    Amazyah Senior Member

    Sure, the Earth is getting warmer!
    Mankind is helping the Earth do it a little faster.
    Truth is, it is a natural progression.
    The Earth was warm before the Ice Age and has been warming up ever since.
    It is a natural swing in the Earth's life cycle.
    There will be another Ice Age again, eventually, long after we are all gone and forgotten.

  18. rickstef

    rickstef Guest

    As people have mentioned, this is not the place for Politics and if you want to continue this, take it to real climate like SteveM suggested

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