Floquil vs. Scalecoat Caboose Reds

Discussion in 'FAQs' started by Fluesheet, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. Fluesheet

    Fluesheet Member

    I'm currently painting an AMB (wood) model of an N&W CF type caboose. I've started with Floquil's caboose red, but t his appears to be a little darker than what I need. Is anyone familiar with the relative "redness" of Scalecoat's caboose red compared to Floquil?

    Secondly, is Scalecoat I (or II for that matter) compatible with Floquil paint? I.e. will it cover the existing Floquil without any problems?

  2. Russ Bellinis

    Russ Bellinis Active Member

    The standard Floquil paints are laquer based. The Scalecoat 1 paints are alcohol based. Floquil has also offered water based acrylic paints in the past. I'm not sure, but I think Scalecoat II is a water based acrylic. The water based acrylic paints are compatible, and can be thinned with water or denatured alcohol. Some can be thinned with isopropel (rubbing) alcohol, but I've found a lot of the acrylics will shock when you try to thin them with isopropel, so I use denatured which I buy in gallons at the local home improvement store.

    The laquer based paints and alcohol based paints are not compatible, but if you let the Floquil dry completely, you can paint over it with the Scalecoat without problems. I'm not sure it will work the other way. You need to be careful of the amount of scalecoat you shoot, because alcohol is one of the products regularly used to remove paint. In fact when you read of people using automotive brake fluid for paint remover, the thing in the brake fluid that disolves paint is the alcohol. Also Scalecoat never dries to the point that it won't disolve when hit with alcohol. A friend of mine who used to be a custom painter before he went to work as quality control manager for Athearn, used Scalecoat exclusively for his custom painting. He always made masks for his paint jobs so no color of Scalecoat was ever applied over another color of Scalecoat.

    If the caboose red is too dark, you could respray the caboose with a thin wash of Floquil reefer white thinned about 10:1 with thinner. You might experiment with a piece of scrap plastic to see what you need to do to get the color about right. Since red is the worst color for fading when exposed to sunlight, almost any shade of red that is too light can be correct, but too dark is not so good.

    I hope this information helps you.
  3. doctorwayne

    doctorwayne Active Member

    Hmm. I just looked at a jar of Scalecoat 1, and the label says that it contains Xylol and petroleum. Floquil contains "petroleum distillates". My can of lacquer thinner lists methyl alcohol, acetone, and toluene as ingredients. I've always used lacquer thinner with both Floquil and Scalecoat, and both seem to work well. The Scalecoat dries to a gloss finish, although I've not tested if it can be removed with lacquer thinner once it has cured.
    Floquil's Signal Red isn't as dark as Caboose Red, but it is quite vivid.

  4. Fluesheet

    Fluesheet Member

    Thanks guys. I'll take a look at the Floquil signal red, and maybe mix that with their caboose red to get something a little brighter. The white wash sounds interesting as well - Both are worth experimenting with.

    Regarding finishes. flat doesn't bother me assuming that decals will adhere equally well to flats and glosses. Even if that is not the case, I can always gloss coat it if necessary.
  5. jtloconut

    jtloconut Member

    No sir all surfaces must be gloss. After decaling then you can flat or weather your model,
  6. 60103

    60103 Pooh Bah

    Red paint is a problem in that it's a bit translucent and affected by the undercoat.
    One of my friends painted a coach and didn't like the red shade, so overpainted it with a different red and the shade was perfect. Then he painted a second car with just the second shade and it was all wrong!
  7. Fluesheet

    Fluesheet Member

    I waded through some descriptions and color photos in "Cabooses of the N&W" and another book that I can't currently recall the name of by Jim Nichols.

    Using the model as an idex, on average, the photos were slightly oranger, with about the same saturation. However, the cabooses look distinctly bright red In the context of other items in the photos and descriptions state the same. The slight orange cast in the photos *may* be due to the vintage of the film. Older older color photos seem (to me) to have slightly yellow cast overall.

    That logic worked through, I went to the LHS today and picked up some Floquil SP Scarlet and Soo Line Red and began experimenting this evening. Soo Line Red 50:50 with Caboose Red (which is currently the base color) brightens the red nicely and puts some gloss into it as well. Soo line by itself doesn't look too bad either, but I'll have to look at that in the light of day first - what looks good on a small patch *might* be over the top on the whole caboose.

    DW, I looked at Signal Red as well - Soo Line looked to be slightly brighter, with maybe a slight pink cast. Maybe - too close to call for me. My son ordered me to stop lollygagging and grab the Soo Line (he was there in the role as chauffer gain driver training hours and doesn't quite have the same interest in this color match... :) )
  8. Fluesheet

    Fluesheet Member

    A quick update to this thread: The mix I decided on for my "official" version of N&W red is 2 parts Soo Line Red, 1 part Caboose Red (both floquil). The former gives it gloss, the latter tempers the brightness just enough.

    The Soo Line gives it brightness and a gloss, the Caboose Red tempers the brightness a tad.

    My father was the final arbiter - he spent most of his childhood hanging around the N&W / Pennsylvania interlocking tower in Circleville, Ohio. Of course, I took his judgement with a grain of salt because while he's a much better modeler than I, he's colorblind!

    I'll post photos of the caboose when complete.
  9. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    This is a lesson often too hard learned.
    Save yourself the heartache and do the following:
    1. take two pieces of material, your choice, and paint one gloss, and the other flat
    2. In almost every decal sheet there are pieces that you won't use, apply to both gloss, and flat.
    3. use a decal softener/setter.
    4. when dry, overspray with your favorite "flattener".
    5. compare the results, you will see that the decal on the flat, will still stand out. The one on the gloss, will not.

    Rule of thumb for lettering: Decals, on a gloss surface, Dry transfers on a flat surface.
    Submitted for your consideration.
  10. leon

    leon Member

    will Scalecoat II work well on a Bowser all metal locomotive kit.
  11. Fluesheet

    Fluesheet Member


    My assumption is that it would fine, as long as the metal was clean. However, I'm not really a paint guy - I'd suggest you start a new thread for this question. You have the right forum (technical), but questions easily get lost when they're appended to the end of existing threads.


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