Discussion in 'General Card Modeling' started by modano1, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. modano1

    modano1 Member

  2. cygielski

    cygielski Member

    Yeah, 19 years in development... I hope it's worth it.
  3. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    History repeats itself again................

    Wasn't there a big cut after WWII because "conventional warfare" could not be waged because of the threat of nuclear weapons and the penny pinchers wanted to save money............ and then along came Korea, Viet Nam, Afganistan, Bosnia, and Iraq, and a few others I missed. Putting all of one's eggs in one basket is a pretty dangerous thing. I don't care how many bells and whistles you got on that thing.

    We never learn, penny pinchers (politicians) always end up costing more lives to save a buck. I hope they store them planes good so they can be brought out of retirement to save the those penny puncher's bacon when it becomes neccessary. Because when the crap does hit the fan, those guys are the one screaming the loudest that we should have been prepared!

    My opinion.

  4. modelincard

    modelincard Member

  5. 46rob

    46rob Member

    It's a good plane--no question. The problem lies in the Air Force's historically myopic view about weapons systems. They need fast and pointy nosed things. Excellent ground attack types like the A7 and A10 had to be forced down their throats, and at the first chance, got foisted off an the ANG and reserves. Now they've got a new toy, and they want to ditch the rest of their kit in order to get as many of these new Go-Fasts as possible. LIke John says, I hope they store the older stuff well, so that when the need arises, those old, unglamorous workhorses can come back and finiish the job. Hey--it's only (taxpayers) money.
  6. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't those exact same politicians who end up sending troops into battle. I reckon we should go back to the good old medieval days when the King was sitting on his horse at the FRONT of a battle line. How the heck anyone can think they can LEAD a country into war by sitting 6000 miles away from where the bullets are flying, is beyond me... I'd pay good money to see Bush and Blair go 3 rounds with Uncle Saddam. Great film idea there for the Monty Python team, I reckon. Then the rest of the world could have a good laugh, and get on with raising grandchildren.

    Tim P
  7. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

    Well said, John. I can sort of see the F-117 fleet. After all, the F-22 should be able to do what the Stealth Fighter does so well. And the U-2 fleet has been a bullseye since the UAV fleet matured so well. But half the BUFF fleet? I guess you don't need a fleet of 98 aircraft to rain terror down from above.

    The only silver lining I can see in this pending retirement is maybe 60-0028 will be retired (most likely being one of the older birds) and put on static display somewhere and I can get up close and personal with a bird I spent 12 hours with in January 1972.

    Personally, I don't think the F-22 is a worthy replacement for the greatest fighter ever developed -- the McDonnell Douglas F-15 (and don't even think of telling me Boeing F-15. Them heavy metal developer had nothing at all to do with the development of the Eagle). But then, I am a bit prejudice. 8v) Time will tell, and in less time, I won't care either way. A free model of the F-22 is available at http://www.geocities.jp/mamecraft/f22g.html
  8. cecil_severs

    cecil_severs Member

    In the fall of 1972 as a college intern at McDonnell Douglas I had the great privilege of watching a max performance takeoff of the number 2 F-15 prototype. If you have ever seen one of these it's a bit like watching a rocket launch except that you get to see the vehicle roll past just before launch and then rollout at 10,000 ft. I guess you know a great design when it takes nearly 20 years to design a replacement.

  9. Rick Thomson

    Rick Thomson Member

    <When can I expect a model of this one?????>

    Fiddler's Green has one, albeit a simple one.

    Regarding the F-15, have I ever mentioned that my old Sqn (441 Sqn) brought back the first gun camera photo's of the Eagle ever taken by a non USAF source?
  10. shrike

    shrike Guest

    I worked for TWA at Lambert during the Agile Eagle development. They would occaisionally do low-level/low-speed work inbetween airliner "pushes".
    The big trick of the day was to start at one end of the runway, take off, do a 360 and land again - - without crossing the taxiways. While the regular F-15 can rack around an impressive turn, watching the AE prototype (with canards and thrust vectoring) do a 360 completely within the regular Eagles diameter was an absolute jaw-dropper.

    And I never did find out what would sometimes leave the strip in the wee hours of the night....
  11. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

    At the risk of hijacking this thread, when I was assigned to Elmendorf AFB in the mid '80s, I would give a tour of the base to anyone who wanted it. All they needed do was be on a waiting AF Blue Goose bus just off base. Part of the tour would include an upclose and personal look at an F-15A model, including seat time in the cockpit if it was sanitized. Another part of the tour included going around to the far end of the runway. I had the tour timed to coincide with a two-ship F-15 takeoff. The aircraft were rotating up to Galena AB to stand alert there. They were generally fully loaded with centerline fuel, Sparrows and Sidewinders. As I would approach the end of the runway, I would inform on the tower I was in position and the Eagle would begin it run. From where my group was waiting, there was a rise in the runway. The joy and excitement I would see in their faces as an F-15, followed by another, came up over the rise just raising its gear and then pulling into a max climb with the nose pointed straight up was great. The birds would climb several thousand feet then level off, but it was still a sight to see and the best part of the tour for the group. And I was always impressed each time I saw it. Boy do I love that fighter.
  12. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    I'm not saying I'm in favor of all the retiring of good aircraft the airforce is attempting but there are a few differences between now and the Vietnam era. Back then there Macnamarra was touting the idea of "commonality" ie a be all do all airplane and they hoped that they had it in the F-111. It eventually turned into a pretty good bomber but was a pathetic fighter.

    Then the F-15 came along with the design motto of "Not a pound for air to ground" and ended up(F-15E) being one of the best fighter bomber aircraft in the world. The point being that technology has improved enough that an aircraft can be designed for two roles and actually carry them both out. But I'll admit that I don't think you could ever make a heavy bomber into a fighter (or vice versa) and the decision to get rid of the B-52's is perhaps not so wise.

    I've heard this question asked before but no one had an answer so I'll ask it again. Why don't we just modify a bunch of F-15's with the P&W F-119 engine? We could still have a few F-22's to go in before all the air defenses were eliminated and stealth was needed and we would have the cheaper F-15's with their new and more powerful engines and greater endurance to take on the role of workhorse fighter.
  13. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Hey Will,

    It won't work simply because of A. It ain't a big purty NEW toy with NEW neato stuff on/in it, and B. It's too good of an idea and would be a smart money/time saving thing to do! C. Somebody won't get as big a kick-back as adding three more 22's to the pot!

    TheF-15 is NOT ready for retirement, and WILL with the right pilot (USAF trained) wup-up on ANY THREE THINGs with wings on em sent up against it. And that's not even getting the wingman involved!:grin:

    Alex... they had to eat them words on the "old" A-10 when the missles started flying and there wasn't anything that had the time weapons and eyeballs to track em down. Another case of no pointy nose, no purty RAM skin, and no Mach number attached! I wish the Marines would take ever last one of them Hogs and put em to good use, putting a 30mm on somebody putting IEDs down next to the road.

    I'll shut up now........

  14. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Ash.......wished I coulda been on one of them tours.
  15. mikew

    mikew Member

    They must have disposed of the A-10 VERY recently, because this very morning there were 3 squadrons of active duty A-10s right here at DM (well, two anyway- one of them was deployed overseas).

    EC-130H Compass Call
    Davis Monthan AFB, AZ
  16. Huey

    Huey Member

    last year, i witnessed several times, A-10s flying above our camp in Ghazni... doing some beautiful manuevers that left me a lasting impression. i was wondering at that time how they can ever imagine of retiring these planes. it was around 5:30 pm and the boys were still up there hovering above our camp and the nearby PRT camp... sending a strong message to those who would dare attack both camps not to mess with us as they will pounce on them. its like having two hawks up there watching over us.

    it will be a bad move to retire these planes just for a single type of multi-role aircraft. the pyschological impact of B-52s on a bombing run is like raining death over the terrorist which i don't think any aircraft can provide.
  17. Getter1

    Getter1 Active Member

  18. Texman

    Texman Guest


    As an A-10 crew chief, I can tell you that they are still out there, doing
    an even better job than ever before!

  19. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    This discussion has quite a bit of irony in it doesn't it? Since when has the government done things in a practical manner? If it were a matter of best choice we shouldn't even have the F-22, it should be the F-23 Blackwidow that we should be discussing. The only performance category that the F-22 was superior was in low speed handling.

    The YF-23 was stealthier and faster and probably better in one or two other categories as well. The deciding factor ultimately was you guessed it, cost. Lockheed Martin had a better rep for on time and under budget than Northrop Grumman (admittedly Northrop had huge huge cost overruns developing the B-2) so they got the contract. But in the end Lockheed has overrun it's budget and I think are a little behind their proposed schedule. So what was gained? Answer: A pretty good fighter for more than promised but not quite the best we could have gotten for more than promised.
  20. George

    George Member

    Hobby Models 51

    ...It's the early YF-22...but still....

    Attached Files:

    • F22.jpg
      File size:
      16.2 KB

Share This Page