Emergency, I WANT, Gimmie Gimmie...

Discussion in 'Zealot Archives' started by Stev0, Aug 16, 2008.

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  1. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    I'll make it short.

    What grinds my gears are members (many are new) that demand free product instead of either:

    1) Finding it themselves.
    2) Searching the forum using the 'Search' feature.
    3) Asking for scans of non-free product.
    4) Not wanting to learn how to create it themselves through their OWN efforts.
    4) Asking for digitals to be emailed to them.
    5) Overall ignorance of the culture/hobby they refuse to learn about except by stepping on toes.

    Seriously, Do your own work. READ. True knowledge is not knowing everything but knowing where to find that knowledge needed. Well now you know where to find it. It only requires that you use the search function.

  2. paulhbell

    paulhbell Guest

    Well put.

    I have noticed over the past few weeks, requests have grown.
  3. David H

    David H Member

    Free model competitions may not have helped. There have been or are a lot of really cool models out there and not all are easy to find.

    But generally I agree; if you cannot find it for free then buy it or build it from scratch (the second will probably require some practise).

  4. Rick Thomson

    Rick Thomson Member

    Have to agree with you SteveO. It's nice to find something for free, but if it is a subject that I really want, then I'm willing to pay a reasonable sum for it.

  5. Lepercan

    Lepercan Member

    I prefer scratchin' it, myself. Takes a while to learn how, though. NO instant gratification.
  6. nebeltex

    nebeltex Member

    the sort of individuals you seem to be pointing out mostly suffer from one or more of the following...

    1] a false sense of entitlement.

    2] gross ignorance.

    3] laziness.
  7. smyfe

    smyfe Member

    All of you guy's are right, half of the fun of this hobby is searching the net to find what you like, but the main thing is that we don't want to upset any of the designers out there, some of which do not like their models traded, these designers are our lifeblood and do us all a great service with their time and skill. There are plenty of lists of sites and shops here on the forum, just do a search!!!
  8. paulhbell

    paulhbell Guest

    Thats why I looked in the Wiki, it had a link page to free and pay model sites. But now the Wiki is not available anymore.

    Maybe we could have a sticky with links and shops on the forum somewhere.

    Also we don't want to scare off the 'newbies', I mean asking for links to sites and help with building models aint a bad thing.
  9. cdavenport

    cdavenport Member

    I'll second paulhbell's moderating comment. As a retired military officer and current middle school teacher, I have had to learn NOT to be upset with the gross lack of etiquette among students and their equally obtuse parents. It is a deplorable sign of the times.

    So, it is incumbent on the illuminati to teach the lesson of forum etiquette to the ignorati.

    Finally, designer's can just ignore these pleas from the wilderness. I don't even look at the posts unless it's from someone I know has the sense to research first; ask questions later.
  10. cmdrted

    cmdrted Active Member

    Essentially I agree with you but I may put a little devil's advocate into the mix. While not particularly computer adept I have a huge problem finding some of the kits the guys are building and posting. For me it took quite awhile to "stumble" onto the websites when they went down temporarily. There are many more shops out there than I have in my card models favourite files, and just last night I tried to log into PMIs catalog/site as they have a few of the more obscure kits I'm looking to aquire and I had to actually backdoor it by googling into Saul Jacob's old site. So sometimes the cries for help are just that.
    The other pro argument is alot of newcomers to the hobby may not want to lay out a bunch of cash for a kit that they may not build if they find it too daunting. But after a few of the freebie kits they sould move on.
    Where I agree with you is when I absolutely go nuts when the requests go for free models of some fairly complicated subjects.
    I wonder if alot of those requests are "phishings" for some of the infamous pirate sites that have been noted to have their requested subjects.
  11. nebeltex

    nebeltex Member

    confucious says;

    "a smart man learns from his mistakes. a WISE man learns from the mistakes of others"

    i think this thread should help a lot of "ignorati" become a bit more wise.
  12. SEBRET

    SEBRET Member

    You see this just goes to show how much respect we have for our hobby. Unlike plastic modelers (pretty hard to pirate those, lol), we have to stand guard against all these kinds of troubles. Just goes to show a true card modeler is one of the most devoted kinds of modelers, and it's awesome that we have so many people here who care and aren't just shoving the issue under the rug.
  13. zealousy

    zealousy Member

    Hi Everyone,Please let me put forward a point in favour of the newbies, including myself. I personally don't remember having too much trouble finding the kits I want. But I can imagine why one may not find it on the net. It is a big place to look and I myself have given up various searches to some models I've seen people build. I guess you gain knowledge on where to look as you go on, meaning, a senior modeler may find something quite easy to find but still would be a needle in the hay stack for a junior!As for buying, aha! $20 may seem small, but from where I come from, that converts to a lot of money. And if the kit in question comes in print, postage will cost a small fortune as most of the vendors are not available locally. (Of course a .pdf download blows that problem) And kids who maybe trying their hand on this may not be able to pay for it themselves.I am not speaking on behalf of the plain lazies, but the genuine lot who are just learning the ropes of a beautiful craft! So, next time you may see a request, give it a thought!Cheers
  14. Stev0

    Stev0 Active Member

    I would have to say that this hobby is rather 'inexpensive' depending how far into you wish to go. A person could build free models until doomsday and not buy one kit. But when you look at the cost of printing a kit over ordering one. =\

    It's MY personal experience that ordering a kit is cheaper than printing one. Unless you don't care about the quality of the print and the medium it's printed on.

    As for kits in general. There are many things I would love to see in kit form but cannot find, either due to the fact that they don't exist, are out of print or a just poor quality.

    To just cry out for freebies when there are purchasable kits handier is a bit much. So either find something else or fork out for the kit you want. There is a third option. Create it yourself. All the answers require effort.

    $20 may seem small yes but that would be $20 that could be spent on other things. If you weighed that $20 with say another $20 in shipping thats $40. I'm not sure how far $40 gets anyone these days but I think if your building something over time and you enjoy it, that's money well spent. If you go out and spend that $40 on entertainment, more than likely it's going to not last long.

    I would be interested to see how much money people are spending on free models to print when they have to have.

    1) a reasonable printer.
    2) ink for the printer.
    3) cardstock to print on.

    I am discounting the computer/internet connection and time because you would need that to order the kit online.

    I spent about $35 to have the StarCraft Marines Rifle printed off (about 40 pages) on coverstock with a laser printer. That was a free model.

    I spent about $15 to print off the Yamaha M1 Bike which was 18 pages.

    But that's me. No doubt people do things differently. I'm sure if I had the cartridges and cardstock the cost would be similar.
  15. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    I DO have a problem if someone just asks for free models. I DO NOT have a problem if someone asks for help finding a LINK to a free model. Searching for a SPECIFIC model can be difficult. I don't think its right to just lump everyone together that is asking for a model.

    *edit* with the loss of the WIKI I think we need to find some way to replace that link to pages. I will put some thought into it and suggestions are appreciated :)
  16. zealousy

    zealousy Member

    Stev0, point taken...but the economic contexts are different. True, $20 won't get an American that far, but I can get a full tank of gas for my bike and still have some to spare LOL :) but still, when it comes to ordering I will still have to pay in Dollars and not ruppees. So overall, printing cost never comes close to the order with postage. Here, papercraft is not a hobby commonly practiced, matter of fact, most people don't even know about it, hell I didn't know about six months ago :D so local stores don't have kits or specefic tools for this. We just use whatever is available at hand. But yeah, I can understand paying for a kit even it may be a little over budget...there are some models you just can't help falling in love with!

    Chris, I don't know what the WIKI in this forum was like, but if it is what I think it is, I sure would love to see it in action. Would help a lot of people I imagine :)

    Cheers to you both, have a great day!
  17. SEBRET

    SEBRET Member

    hey i don't know much about the wiki either, but if we had people looking for a range of models, we could always direct them to the papercraft archives from 4chan. its separate from the sight and all, i don't know how many of you know about it but here it is.
  18. Jim Nunn

    Jim Nunn Member

    I’ll toss my hat into this ring.

    I have to agree with cgutzmer asking for links to models is well with in the standards of good etiquette for this forum. However asking that some designer would drop everything and dash off a model for pleasure of the asker is, well for the lack of a better word, asinine. I’ve tried to design a couple of models and the time and effort required is staggering. My complements to all of you designers that give away your hard work and ask little in return.

    Could I suggest a link page that is editable by all the members of the forum where new links could be posted? Of course a search engine to look for duplicates would be needed. Some thing along the lines of 3D paper models http://www.3dpapermodel.com.tw/freedownload/download-asp/link.asp?ID=free
    With the exceptions of the Old Goats like me all of the new generation of modelers started with downloaded models. So let’s help them find the freebees.

    As for the please design me crowd perhaps a simple wish list forum would be useful. Monthly voting on the best suggestions could be helpful to the designers to see what modelers are interested in building.

    Jim Nunn
  19. SEBRET

    SEBRET Member

    The thing is we have a wish list thread, but I'm almost convinced that the only people that flood it are the requesters.
  20. Nothing

    Nothing Longtime Member

    well i look at the wish list but from a designer point of view, you have to really have a strong interest in it to put forth the work.
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