elesco feedwater systems

[cn nutbar]

hello all---a distinguishing feature on many canadian national steam locomotives was the elesco feedwater system.some of the locomotives in my collection such as s-1-g 3513 and s-1-b 3254 came with the feature already added by Overland Models.however,a couple of other locomotives required doctor wayne's touch to add those features.S-2-A 3529 and S-3-A 3703 were two of the locomotives that wayne customized for me---i remember wayne being hesitant because the locomotives were brass and he did'nt want to screw them up---you be the judge

 

[Clerk]

I would say he did a fantastic job on them:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

 

[MilesWestern]

Love those loco's! :thumb: Great work Wayne! CNnutbar is pretty lucky to have such a good friend!

 

[doctorwayne]

Thanks guys, but I'm at least as lucky as Mister Nutbar because he keeps providing me with opportunities and resources to learn new skills and gain new knowledge. Plus, he's a good friend with whom to enjoy trains or ponder the mysteries or injustices of life, and he sees that my dog Otis is well fed. (see the thread "a fun weekend" for an explanation).

Wayne

 

[RailRon]

he keeps providing me with opportunities and resources to learn new skills and gain new knowledge.

By golly, Wayne, in this case you DID learn new skills! Adding an Elesco FWH is adding quite a bit to the plumber's nightmare on many locos - and you mastered the challenge expertly! :thumb::thumb::thumb:

I love these Elescos! Somehow, for me they are sooooo typical for American steam engines. And yes, I prefer a lot of pipes and handrails and prominent air pumps and all that stuff mounted on the boiler, compared to the slick and bare looking boilers so common on many European steam engines. (Hehe, I know - the Brits won't love me for that statement! )

These engines really look great. Also the paint job is superb!

Ron

 

[webmaster]

I prefer a lot of pipes and handrails and prominent air pumps and all that stuff mounted on the boiler, compared to the slick and bare looking boilers so common on many European steam engines. (Hehe, I know - the Brits won't love me for that statement! )

Ron

Actually Ron, from a Brit, I agree with you!
British rolling stock IMO is boring, thats why I model US...

 

[Art67]

Those locomotives are simply awesome.

 

[cn nutbar]

additional plumbing

hello everyone---thanks for the feedback.besides the bundle on top of the smokebox,the elesco system also required the addition of a pump below the running board which wayne also had to alter---overall,i really like this engine because of all the exposed plumbing

 

[modelsof1900]

Hallo to all super detailing model builders and loco lovers,

a very nice looking model and a very fine modeling Job, Wayn!

I worked until 1966 as steam engine repair and service man (in Germany) and so I like to see such fine steam loco models. We in Germany know similar feed water heaters of type Knorr and than engines have had an extensive piping system.
But I'm wondering to read, that this Overland model must be aditionally equipped with such details like water pump and FWH and all the other new parts, piping, valves and more, I think. How was this model equipped before rebuilding - 2 injectors? Than I would be surprised again that such a large Mike has had only injectors and not one injector and one water pump. I know engines equipped with injectors only as switchers or smaller engines until 1910 or 20. Each engine equipped with a pump and FWH has had a better energie efficiency as feed water temparature is higher than coming from an injector and FEWs were a common feature since 1920.
But like I sayed - a wunderfull model after rebuilding with such a noticeable fitting!!!


Bernhard

 

[doctorwayne]

Hi, Bernhard, nice to hear from you again. The 3703 was one of 40 USRA Mikados built for the Grand Trunk Railway in 1918, and was originally equipped with two injectors. I'm not sure when the CNR updated them with Elesco feedwater heaters, but it was a very popular appliance used by Canadian National on its larger locomotives. The model was originally marketed as a basic USRA loco, if I'm not mistaken, and we used it as a starting point for the CNR version. Because CNR had such a large and diverse roster, many small and medium-size locomotives operated right up to the end of steam with only injectors, although CNR and the Grand Trunk Western did have some Elesco-equipped 0-8-0s. They also used Coffin fwhs on quite a few locos, although most were concealed within the smokebox. Exposed versions were used on some Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific 2-8-0s and the Elesco exhaust steam ejector, often called the poor man's feedwater heater, was also popular, particularly on the U-1-f Mountains. While someone else with more knowledge of the CNR will hopefully add to this, I think that the Worthington feedwater system was used on only a few of the GTW Northerns.
Here's a photo of another of Mister Nutbar's S-1-a Mikados, this one was built using an Athearn Genesis 2-8-2 as the starting point.

Wayne

 

[Gary Pfeil]

Beautiful work Wayne, just as we've come to expect from you! Nutbar, I'm a big fan of Elesco Heaters too. Just love 'em. Would it be ok to post a couple pics here or is that bad forum etiquete? Maybe a new thread where anyone interested can post pics of both models and prototype locos with Elescos?

 

[cn nutbar]

thanks for the input

thanks for all the great feedback,especially the help on the technical explanation---and gary,please feel free to add to the thread,i very much appreciate your input.bernhardt,i am adding a side view of 3513 which shows more of the pumps and pipes which were all included when the locomotive was purchased---thanks again

 

[Gary Pfeil]

Thanks Nutbar, This photo is for all the plumbing fans out there. This model came with all this detail, none was added. It is a NYC H10a mikado. Paint by Blake Tatar.

 

[doctorwayne]

Nice lookin' loco, Gary, and one of my favourites too! The first Super Power locomotive, before the Berks.

Wayne

 

[modelsof1900]

Hi Wayne, Hi nutbar,

thank you very much for the detailed commentary and extra side view of #3513. It's for US-modellers in Germany each time a new surprise, how many different locos of same type exist and how engines changed while their life. I remeber to a few Sante Fe experiments as single engines was rebuilt to articulateds and back to rigid frame locos again.
Such things were unthinkable in Germany. Ok, engines changed here also but all times with a high grade of standardization and uniformity and that in a special grade after establishment of "German Reichsbahn Society" (Deutsche Reichsbahn-Gesellschaft - DRG) in 1924. All new road engines of that time were equipped with water pumps and Knorr FWHs that is very similar to Elesco FWH and so I know that this is a standard feature of that time. If you are interested in a few more informations click on http://www.dlok.de/327.htm and scroll down to pictures. Like with all our Unity-engines of "German Reichsbahn Society" the Knorr FWHs are placed in the smokebox before the stack. In most cases FWHs are seen above behind smoke deflectors.
But in all cases you ‘ll see that Germany’s engines look like light engines. And this unifomity and simplicity has me let changes to American railroads 30 yaers ago. And each time with such fine models I can explore new details and differences in American railroad reality.
Nutbar, enjoy your fine models!

And an additional question to last note to Super Power engines, please.
I was sure, that Alco's A1 was first Super Power engine that was equipped first time with a 2axle trailing truck supperting an extra large firebox. The NYC H10a a Super Power engine? I know the story of train test with the new Alco A1 and a parellel running freight train hauled by a NYC H10a. I think in result of this test the term "Super power" engine was connected to this new loco type with the 2axle trailing trucks and the larger fireboxes. First time engines didn't running out of steam!
Or was is my mistake?

Bernhard

 

[doctorwayne]

Bernhard, you are correct: the H-10 was an attempt to utilize many of the improvements that were later used to create true Super Power. The first H-10, No. 8000, was built by Lima for the Michigan Central subsidiary of the NYC, in 1922. Compared to a similarly sized H-7e Mikado, the 8000 produced 15 to 28 percent greater drawbar horsepower at all speeds above 15mph, while consuming the same amount of coal and less water. The firebox of the H-10, while the same length as that of the H-7e, was wider and the H-10 used the more efficient type E superheater. Not only was the type E more efficient, it allowed a rearrangement of the flues which increased the net gas area of the boiler. The increased grate area and net gas area taken together accounted for 10% of the performance difference. The H-10's boiler pressure was 210 psi, 10 psi higher than that of the H-7e, and this increased pressure, along with the more efficient superheater, contributed another 6% increase in power. No. 8000 was also equipped with an Elesco fwh, which accounted for another 8% of the performance difference. Finally, there was a gain in performance of about 2% by using superheated steam to run the appliances, like the stoker, generator, and air pumps. All of these improvements could have been added to almost any reasonably modern locomotive of the era.
Another important feature of the 8000, although it didn't increase horsepower, was the use of a booster on the trailing truck. The use of the booster at low speeds allowed a 2-8-2 to have the starting tractive effort of a 2-10-0 by using excess steam not required by the cylinders at that speed.
In 1924, Lima built, on speculation, the A-1 demonstrator, and in early 1925 it ran in a series of tests through the Berkshire Hills of NYC subsidiary Boston & Albany. The A-1 bettered the drawbar horsepower of an H-10 by 26 to 30% at all speeds, and, as a result, the B&A ordered 55 copies, dubbing them Berkshires. All of this information is taken from the May and June 2000 issues of Trains Magazine.

Wayne

 

[modelsof1900]

Hallo Wayne,

thanks for the very extensive informations again. Nice to know such a forum, where each of members can profit by the knowledge of others!

Bernhard

 

[cn nutbar]

what a beauty

hi all---gary,that h10a is a beaut---makes the cn locomotives almost look naked---hey doc,aren't you glad i don't model the NYC and i didn't ask you to build one of those(although i bet you could)---thanks to all the contributors,especially our international friends(even though the swiss did beat canada's hockey team at the olympics)---hope to hear from everyone again---long live steam,cn nutbar

 

[RailRon]

Hehe nutbar, did you notice that the Swiss curling girls also beat the Canadian team and made the silver medal? Probably for the Swiss it is :thumb::thumb: , but for the Canadian :curse::curse::curse:!



But to be honest, I'd prefer a H10 anytime over a olympic medal - and you can be sure that I prefer shunting freight cars over shunting curling stones! :thumb:

Back to topic: This thread is a wonderful collection of plumber-nightmare-beauties!

Ron

 

[cn nutbar]

for all the plumbers

couldn't resist a couple more shots