Eastern Tn logging on the DG CC & W RR 1928

Discussion in 'Logging, Mining and Industrial Railroads' started by Bill Nelson, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    double head tested

    I double headed the Ma & Pa 2-8-0 ( as of yet un numbered), with my #1, a heavily modified Mantua General, and was pleased below 30% throttle # 1 was slightly faster than the 2-8-0, and above 50% throttle the 2-8-0 was slightly faster, this could be fun.

    Bill Nelson
  2. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    SML A-1 2-8-0 +#1 TT.jpg I got the front coupler on, and the locomotive double heads with #1 very well. this is important, as #1 runs very well, but is not strong enough to get much done on my current layout, and my layout redesign plans are showing that no mater what I'm not going to be able to escape the 3.3% grades like I have on my valley division. the 2-8-0 is packed full of lead, and has a big motor , so it should be relatively stout, no to work on that e tender wiring, and hunt through my roster, and try to find it a number. I am close to being out of numbers below #22, (#21 and 22 are my 2-4-4-2s, for aesthetic purposes I'd like them to be the highest numbered locomotives .
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  3. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    Ma & PA 2-8-0 tnder frame.jpg more progress

    I got a hole drilled through the tender floor to allow me to pass wires from insulated pick ups on the tender trucks (not yet built). The pick ups will consist of small PC board tabs fastened to the tender trucks with JB quick, with wires and phosphor bronze pick ups soldered to them. The larger of the two center holes is for the wires, the other hole is for the screw that mounts the tender shell.

    This locomotive is close to operational, It will need some more cosmetic work, a coal load, and some miscellaneous details, but I am getting close.

    I called NWSL today and ordered a modern can motor motor for my 30 year old modified NWSL Sierra #18, a very small drivered standard gauge consolidation. A can motor will make this locomotive more compatible with the DCC at the club, and may allow me to add a Tsunami sound decoder at some time. I also ordered a small flea drive to power a Jordan miniatures Mack rail bus in Hon3. I will document that project in my HOn3 engine shops thread in the narrow gauge section.

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  4. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Snuck on the property!

    I was able to elude the RR police and dogs on the DGCC&W and sneak this black and white photo of a Blackstone C19 with my trusty brownie camera. I was manually winding the film for another shot when the train was gone from sight. Maybe some day in the future they will have faster acting cameras but for 1928 this will have to do.

    Enjoyed the visit today Bill!!!!

    Doc Tom:mrgreen:

    Attached Files:

  5. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    railroad redesign.

    I have been toying with railroad redesign.

    The plan I'm working with would remove 3/4 of my current railroad, leaving only Crooked Creek, n, my saw mill town, and State line, the dual gauge interchange with the Marietta and North Georgia, directly above it, and the Narrow gauge in GeagoKayoosa NC. above that.

    I have a nook, that was intended to be a dispatcher's office, but while it was set up for that purpose, it is a clutter magnet, and has been too full of clutter to have been used for anything. That nook is just wide enough to hold a 21 inch radius helix, and just tall enough (before the sloping attic ceiling closes in) to allow that helix to get close to the height of State line.

    The room is not wide enough for much of a shelf on the east wall a center peninsula and the needed aisles; and that is why I did not use this shape in my original designs; but foot wide shelves on that east wall , with a 16 foot run each, on three levels, will add a whole lot of run to the main line, and leave room for aisles, and a center peninsula that is four and a half feet wide at the fat rnd, tapering down to three feet wide before tapering down to the helix area..

    What would be lost is the brutal steep grades and tight curves of my mountain division, and a lot of the dramatic mountain scenery. I would gain a longer main line run, reduce my maximum mainline grade from 8.5% to 3.3%, ( I might want to have some outragious sidiungs to keep the geared locomotives happy). My Southern interchange in Harlow could be made much more interesting, with the ability of Southern trains to come and go in both directions through a larger Harlow TN.

    Underneath Harlow, I would have room for a much larger Montgomery Furnace, with more interesting Iron ore operations.

    On the top level of the new stack, I would have some room for mountain scenery, a lot longer and gentler run for my narrow gauge, room for a redesigned Iron ore re-laod and a log reload as well. I might be able to fit my water powered sawmill up there, with narrow gauge and standard gauge access, getting logs form the Narrow gauge, and sending most of the lumber out on the standard gauge.

    I am pretty much sold on the idea of making these changes; and would have started, if I had a magic wand that would poof what I have in boxes and store them away. My RR room is so cluttered though I don't have a good space to use for disassembly and storage of critical components. to start I will have to clean up the railroad room, the garage, and do a lot of organizational work. One thing about this plan I hope to have some logging camp staging on of the long foot deep shelves, those could be build quickly and easily, and could be used as staging for Crooked Creek, so very quickly into the construction phase Crooked Creek could be operated as a 2.5 ft X21 ft switching layout.

    Bill Nelson
  6. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    SML-A1Tndr pckups.jpg Tender wiring

    My Ma & Pa 2-8-0 project has been stalled for a month or moor as I could not fine any of my stashes of super fine, flexible wire, which I needed to wire in some insulated pick ups for the tender trucks.

    I was cleaning up my work bench area while my wife watched the football game, and I foud some super fine wire, so I finished manking the lectrical pick ups, so Unless I have built in another short, this locomotive will have pick up on all wheels except for the insulated pilot wheel, and one insulated driver.

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  7. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    The tender is together, no short, this locomotive is starting to look good, just needs some detailing. I have to get off my keester and get some decals put together, I have a lot of unmarked locomotives out there.

    I like the look of this enough, my 2-4-4-2s need green cabs too.
  8. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    SML Mom's  engine.jpg SML Mom's  engine.jpg a new project!

    The Ma & Pa locomotive is fully operational, just needing some detailing and cosmetic work. I had planned on working on my NWSL Sierra # 18, my #6 which has had it's stack replaced, and it's steel cab replaced with brass castings for a Baldwin wooden cab backdating it. I have replacement driver springs to make the sprung drivers more functional (the originals are too stiff, and the weight of the locomotive is not enough to compress them any, so while the drivers are sprung, they might as well be rigid.) I have replacement springs from NWSL, but am waiting for a back ordered replacement motor, as I want to get the mechanism rebuilt with a new motor and improved electrical pick up before I repaint the locomotive with a satin finish and a green cab, to move it from the 1940's back to 1928, where I currently model.

    I am considering a radical redesign and rebuilt of all but 1/3rd of my RR. as a first step I was cleaning off some shelves on the eastern wall of my RR and I came across this locomotive. it is a Ken Kidder Porter Mogul. Back in the mid 1960's my Mom, my Dad and I went to a hobby shop.. this locomotive was in the case, and my mom said to my dad " buy me that locomotive!"; and he did. My mom had me make a short section of track for it, and she kept it on top of her Jewelry box. When my Mom passed away, my dad sugested I take it, and I did, but since my current railroad is not friendly to small rod locomotives (or large rod locomotives), it went on to the shelf. I just tested it and the original motor ran well (on jumper wires, like all old brass it needs it's electrical pick up completely redesigned), and was surprised to see that it runs well, if a little fast, with it's ancient motor. I'm going to redo it's electrical pick up, and perhaps try to see if I can find a gear reduction motor for it. It is small for my RR's needs, but Porter moguls are gorgeous, so I can't resist!

    My daughter wants this locomotive, so I might have to part with it, but I should make it run really well first. she is getting married soon, and if another generation starts to play with trains, they need to run real well. It also needs to be lettered for something less standard , she lives in Houston, so perhaps something like Louisiana Texas and Western might be fun.

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  9. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    That is a very sentimental and important part of your model RR history. I enjoyed its story. I am glad you " found it" in your clean up efforts.

    Who knows what other RR treasures are to be found.

    Doc Tom:thumb:
  10. gbwdude

    gbwdude Member

    Very neat story Bill, that lokie looks tiny. I just hope to find a long lost lokie in my storage unit clean up :) I do have to figure out where my wife stashed all my trains while I was away so maybe I'll get lucky and find some.

  11. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    I knew that locomotive was on that shelf, but cleaning up the shelf , it had to go somewhere, and why not the shops, since My #6's rebuild is stalled waiting for a motor.

    This locomotive is small, and it won't be real useful, unless it double heads well. I was very pleased to see that my Ma & Pa 2-8-0 runs well with my #1, If I do my layout redesign. I'll have to plan electrically for double heading, to use some of my older smaller locomotives on sizable trains.
  12. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    SMLA-1 dispatcher's nook.jpg Nook cleared out!

    I have successfully emptied the former dispatcher's nook in my RR room from 15 years of accumulated *****. a change in the roof line, would have broken up the ceiling to wall line on the eastern wall. I made a little nook in there, with the intention of setting up a dispatcher's desk. I got as far as cobbling a desk together out of discarded kitchen cabinets. The dispatcher's nook was not used, though, as we seldom had more than two crews working at once, and anyone experienced enough to serve as a dispatcher, was desperately needed to work as a brakeman for an inexperienced engineer. (novice engineers need support when facing 8.5% grades for the first time).

    The desk surface of the nook was soon filled with ****, and then the whole nook was. cleaning it out was a royal pain; but now I can measure it more carefully to insure that my plans to use it as a helix nook will work. Getting it clear has already altered my plans, as the back wall is not as tall as I had figured. I need to get in there and measure where the ceiling starts to slope up. I think my plan will still be workable, but the helix will not reach as high, unless it is skewed westward. I may end up having to have a loop on the standard gauge on the upper level to get the elevation needed to match up with the existing track in State line. I am already planning to have an elaborate Narrow gauge loop in that same space, so it could get complicated.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  13. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    You did a great job cleaning out that space. Hopefully your measurements will allow for the helix in a shorter version.
  14. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    The great Job cleaning out the nook, tells me that you haven't seen the aisle space in front of the nook. It was bad before the cat tried to climb the pile to gain access to the attic, now there are three boxes of **** dumped on the floor. each box had stuff to be sorted into use piles. I did throw out the throwoutables, so the pile now needs to be boxed up and sorted into stuff for the club, stuff for the home layout, building materials, tools, details, scenery materials. great stuff in there but an ugly pile, and it will get worse once the condemned section of RR some of it 30 years old, starts to come down.

    here is a planning document, a scale drawing showing altitudes only of the sub roadbed 's top surface at the four levels my new construction will have to splice into the remnants of my old railroad.

    on the altitude chart, the notations with the stars are the four sub roadbed heights I have to match in an orderly fashion, and the rest are features of the room that will affect the design process.

    Had I done an altitude study like this 28 years ago, I would have realized that cutting the headroom above Harlow to 18 inches from 24 inches would have greatly simplified the design process, and greatly reduced the ruling grade on the mountain division. I would not have been able to optimise my space though, as 28 years ago, I didn't know about helixes.

    more later.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  15. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    TNY old cbnt.jpg tny nw hby cab.jpg SMLa-1 Nw MF  st  #2.jpg hobby storage.

    Much of the work done on my train stuff is done on my work table in the family room, as a result, I have a lot of hobby stuff stowed in a closet in the family room, and in a cheap , ugly press board cabinet in the family room.

    As we have been working on our old farm house, which dates back at least to the 1870's, we have been looking for antique wardrobes, as the historical portion of our house , which is about 2,000 sq feet, has exactly one closet. My wife trolling the internet found a good deal on an old yellow poplar knock down wardrobe. This one was very nice, and too cheap to pass up, but it was set up with shelves instead of space to hang clothing. rather than modify an antique , we decided to use it to house my hobby suppies with more class, and make our family room look much nicer, although my work table will still be piled high with *******.

    also since I have been considering major modifications to my RR, I had to start a project that did not make much sense (that is the way I roll), so I started to build a Walthers gold series kit for the Golden valley depot. this is a handsome well done kit, and painted in my new standard white with green trim , will make an excellent DG, CC, & W RR depot. I'm thinking it will be the station for the new larger and better Montgomery Furnace if I actually rebuild my RR. The ship model behind the station used to be up on top of the old hobby cabinet, but will not fit, so it is out on the table. I may start work on it, as some advances with digital R/C has bought the price way down on 8 channel systems, and I could use the same transmitter to control this paddle wheel schooner and a G gauge Goose #2 to run on Dr. Tom's Little River RR. the goose just needs a control system, most everything else is done, but the schooner needs to have paddle wheels and a drive system scratch built, as well as having sails made, and a control system developed. Sadly , if I ever get it functional, The Little River isn't deep enough for it.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  16. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Lot's of good reorganization going on at your place Bill. Looks good. I like the station.

    I agree the ship would run a ground "run a rock" on the Little River on the Large Scale layout.

    Looking forward to seeing the Goose waddle through the Smokies soon. Hope you get the RC stuff worked out.

  17. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    redesigning my redesign.

    With some of our antique furniture purchases recently we have been moving furniture around, and planinng other furnature moves. we have a very nicely made modern red oak roll top desk, that was my computer desk for years until my computer out grew it.

    My wife was ready to get rid of it, and I figured out it will fit in the RR room. (getting it there will be difficult if not impossible, but I am going to try. It may take two men and a mule to get it up there.) It will cut in to the available layout space a little, but leave me with the option of having a nice dispatcher's desk.

    I think that the changes will make Harlow, and Montgomery Furnace smaller than I had them drawn; but they would both be larger than depicted on my current layout.

  18. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    My #1 son is planning on taking time from his Chemical engineering Grad school efforts to come home for Christmas. I will exploit him for some cheap labor while he is here to try to get the roll top computer desk up to the RR room. if the two separate pieces of it can be made to make the turn at the top of the stairs make the turn needed to clear the sloped roof, and the storage cabinet that supports the return loop on the stub end of the narrow gauge on the current 5th level, then I will proceed with the design of my RR that leaves room for the oak roll top desk. then I'd need to get a regulator clock to fiish out the feel of the dispatcher's office.

    I have a box of Homabed for my rebuid, and I have a box of Peco code 100 flex track, and with new switches, and those from my current southern staging, I have 11 Peco code 100 large radius electro frog switches ( I'd guess they are close to a a #7) that I can use for the Dead Grass return loop, and the southern staging, with it's built in return loop, and the helixes; essentially all the hidden track. I'm thinking I'm going to do this thing. I don't have a clear idea of what the top deck of the center aisle will look like, but there is enough room up there to make what I need to be there happen; and hopefully I can do that with some good scenery, and without making it too crowded.

    Bill Nelson
  19. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member


    You are really making progress on your layout rebuild.

    I like the idea of a nice looking dispatcher's desk. I also like the idea of the large radius switches you are planning on using. You are setting the stage for a very user friendly rail road with a lot of operating potential and a shot at long trains.

    I am looking forward to seeing the transformation.

    Doc Tom
  20. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    SMLA-1 dsp dsk #1.jpg SMLA-1 dsp dsk #2.jpg South Harlow Tower!

    #1 son was heading back up to the University of Dayton for graduate school, so this morning was my last to get some extra muscle ; so I finished cleaning out my old hobby cabinet, and got him to help me move it down to the garage (I have to clear out a space for it, as my wife will want to get her speeding ticket red Miata back into the garage before bad weather returns)

    Then I got him to help me move the disassembled roll top desk up into the RR room. It made the tight turn at the top of the stairs better than I thought it would, and I love it up there. I'm satisfied with the fit, and can now do some final planning around it.. I think I am committed, and I may start to remove condemned benchwork by the end of the month.

    Sadly the desk was designed to be a computer desk, the drawers in the base conceal a roll out printer drawer, and the drawer under the desk top conceals a roll out keyboard shelf. The only computers I own that will fit it though, are as outdated as the 50 Cal. flintlock pistol on the desk now; a black and white Mac SE-30, and a tangerine Toilet seat Mac ( both old macs will boot, and the pistol will bullseye). The SE-30 might be useful if I could restore it's original operating system, and set up some operating tools in Hypercard. I'm hesitant to do that though, as it boots now, and all that old stuff is on floppies, and God alone knows if those will still work.

    In the photo's you may notice the level of armament; this is necessary, as The Harlow South Tower is in a very rough neighborhood. Now I will have to build a south Harlow tower, I'm thinking there will have to be a North Harlow Tower as well , as the Harlow trackage will be shared with the Southern Railway, so I will have my first excuse to have two interlocking towers!.

    #1 son got me a big round reproduction Southern railway metal sign for Christmas, a welcome addition. an original Southern Railway Station 1 Mile sign graces the door to my RR room. Brian Kremindahl, a high school buddy of mine rescued it from a junk pile and gave it to me back in the early 70's
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015

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