Direct V2.0- Jupiter 120

Discussion in 'Space & Aeronautics' started by Dyna-Soar, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Dyna-Soar

    Dyna-Soar Member

    Tonight I've begun work on deriving a J-120/ Ares II from Roberto Falomi's shuttle stack (I'll ask his permission before making it available for download). However, calling myself a novice designer is an understatement, though I have done a few models using the "Paragon Method." Does anyone have advice on making the transitions and engine fairings? I'll probably use the RS-68s from the similarly scaled Delta IV from the Lhvcc site.

  2. dhanners

    dhanners Member

    I actually scratchbuilt a Jupiter 120 several months ago in 1/144th scale. I had built an Ares 5, then whacked off the top, re-did the engines and turned it into a J-120 because I thought it looked cooler. Then when some engineers inside NASA (and outside) decided they didn't like the launch-escape tower system and came up with a bullet-shaped fairing LES, I re-did the model yet again.

    Attached Files:

  3. NYC Irish

    NYC Irish Member

    So much talen on this forum

    Wish I had some

    Nice work..really really cool

    John John
  4. SAustin16

    SAustin16 Member

    Dyna-Soar and DHanners,

    Very, very COOL projects !!!

    Between both of you and Ton Noteboom, in a few years there will be a paper model progression of all the designs that lead to the final Ares / Orion rocket.

    As for the transitions and fairings, you can either design in a 3d program, or use ShroudCalc to define your conical / frustum shapes. It's actually pretty easy.
  5. dhanners

    dhanners Member

    Thanks for the kind words, and I'm anxious to see what Dyna-Soar comes up with. It should be pretty good.

    And for those who haven't stumbled upon the online shroud calculator, it has saved my butt more times than I can name. I use it for everything from shrouds to rocket motors to all kinds of other things. Bookmark it if you haven't already:

    For example, on the rear end of my J-120, I used the shroud calculator to make the conical thrust structure, the rocket motors (which are basically SSMEs) and the small collars that cover the SSME/thrust structure joint.

    Sorry for the lousy photos, but I took them with my old camera, which had a busted LCD screen so while I could take pictures, I couldn't scroll through to the "close-up" function....

    Attached Files:

  6. lancer525

    lancer525 Member

    This is fantastic, but if you go look at the Direct 2.0 Thread on the NASA Spaceflight forums, the design of the aft engine skirt has changed somewhat. It is now flattened on either side. This is to say the sides where the engines aren't, are now flat, instead of conical.

    Here is the link to that thread:

    There's a great graphic done by one of the leaders of the DIRECT team at the bottom of the first post on that page. These guys are both American Heroes and Steely-eyed missilemen.

    My next builds, after I finish Scott's 1/4 Mercury, are going to be the J-120/J-232 LVs. I hope you get permission to post the files! sign1

    I absolutely DESPISE Ares, as I believe it to be a colossal waste of money, talent, and NASA's time, and I think that DIRECT is the way to go.

    [​IMG] ..... [​IMG].....[​IMG]
  7. Dyna-Soar

    Dyna-Soar Member

    Also, before I start the J-120, I'm building an Ares IB rocket that inspired by the "Ares I first stage replacement" thread from NSF.
  8. underwoodl06

    underwoodl06 Member

    ... Dhanners, How did you get that EXCELLENT detail for the ET? It would go really great on a shuttle stack model. and the detail on the SRBs. Have you made a model of the Shuttle Stack yet? I am sure you'd make it life like. If you haven't. You must.
  9. dhanners

    dhanners Member

    The "wedge"-shaped thrust structure would be easy enough to do. It reminds me somewhat of the structure at the bottom of the Titan 3 and Titan 4. I'd update my model, but I don't have it anymore. Gave it to a co-worker's kid.

    As for the detail on the ET, thanks for the kind words. I did it with a ridged paper that I found at an art-supply store. I can't recall the name or manufacturer offhand. But if you live near a decent art-supply store, I'd recommend you go check out their paper section. You'll be amazed at what you'll find. I've found several styles of corrugated paper, metallic papers and lots of other cool papers.

    The paper on the ET is one that has kind of a rough ridged texture and it comes in a tan color. It came in a large roll and cost a couple of bucks, as I recall. I cut a piece larger than what I needed because it would shrink a bit in the next step, which is lightly airbrushing it a rust color.

    I build most of my models applying "skins" to an appropriately sized model rocket tube -- it vastly improves rigidity and straightness -- and this one was no exception. I took the piece I airbrushed and cut it to size and affixed it to the model. Sometimes I use double-sided tape, and sometimes I use glue. More often than not, I hide the seam beneath a systems tunnel or plumbing of some sort, as I did here. Once it was on, I lightly sanded the paper, removing some of the paint from the raised ridges, giving it the look you see.

    I've also used this paper to replicate the insulation on a Delta IV Heavy and a Delta IV Medium+(5,4) that I built.

    I've been wanting to do a full shuttle stack in 1/96th scale (it would look nice next to my Energia-Buran) but there are still some challenges I need to figure out before launching (no pun intended) into it. For one, I need to figure out how to do the ET's nose with that ridged paper. I have a couple of ideas how it could be done, but I haven't tried them yet. I've re-scaled the Mars Center shuttle to 1/96th scale with the intention of building it, and I got as far as scratchbuilding three SSMEs (photo below). But I got hung up on the shuttle because I'm still trying to figure out how to replicate the AFRSI blankets, which I want to feature. There are just a lot of challenges to a full shuttle stack, and I haven't thought through all the solutions yet....

    By the way, the SSMEs at the bottom of my J-120 are just smaller versions of what's in the photo below. The nozzle is two conical sections (made from a metallic paper called "Anthracite") glued together, then I use thin strips of a silver metallic paper for the plumbing.

    Attached Files:

    • SSME.jpg
      File size:
      50.4 KB
  10. underwoodl06

    underwoodl06 Member

    well why not try white tissue paper? Or VERY thin cuts of styrofoam? They could be good Subsitutions. You could give them a try. Just a thought.
  11. dhanners

    dhanners Member

    (Not to hijack the thread, but....) Actually, I experimented with toilet tissue. I found some that had a passible texture replicating the AFRSI. I taped it to a piece of wax paper, then taped those to a pane of glass. Next, I took a 50-50 mixture of white glue and water and brushed it on the paper. After letting it dry for a day or so, I had rigid toilet paper, which I then cut into little squares.

    The problem, though, was figuring out how to affix them to the skin of the model. I figured it'd be best to do it before I cut out the pieces of the shuttle and get all the blankets on before assembly. I just couldn't see putting them on after the pieces were assembled because A) there'd be scores, if not hundreds, of them and B) that would involved a ton of handling of the model.

    I couldn't figure any glue that worked. When I tried using white glue on a scrap section, it wound up being a lot of glue and it deformed both the cardstock and the tissue blankets. Rubber cement didn't seem to give good adhesion for me, and glue sticks didn't either. So it was "back to the drawing board" and I've not figured it out yet.
  12. underwoodl06

    underwoodl06 Member

    hmm..That sounds like you've got a big project ahead. So Hopefully you'll figure something out soon that will work. Just keep us informed.

    Hmm..and about the scoring. What would you be scoring? The tiles I would suspect. So why not use a ruler and go across then turn it and go across the other way?
  13. lancer525

    lancer525 Member

    Exceptionally important message!

    Well, Gentlemen...

    I've been asked to help with building a J-120 and a J-232 in 1/144.

    The problem is, I can't find enough parts from the ET that are not painted or skinned. I have some good card stock that's close to that weird orange-brown color, and I wanted to do it as simplistically as possible, but I can't find the ET without all that color on it.

    Also, I'm having some serious trouble designing the parts for the lower end of the ET that match the images I have of that flattened cone they're now using on the DIRECT computer models.

    I can't say anything more about this, as I've been asked to keep it closely held, but I would be more than grateful if any of you exceptionally talented designers can help me come up with some of the parts I am going to need to get the 120 and 232 stacks put together.

    This is a serious project, and while I can't say who has asked me to do it, I can say that it is for a demonstration. And I promise, when I get given permission to release it all publicly, I will do exactly that. Free of charge.

    Is anyone willing to help out a fellow modeler?

    P.S.: There is somewhat of a time constraint on this one, as I'll have to start building the thing before the end of the calendar year.

    Please, pretty please?

Share This Page