Devastator - awesome!

Discussion in 'Anime, Cartoons, Figurines & Paperdolls' started by Amir, Apr 2, 2005.

  1. Amir

    Amir New Member

    I've discovered card modelling only a few weeks ago (yamaha's site). I somehow found Masamune Washington's site. It is great. At first I was intimidated by the hard work involved in making the more complex models. Well... I got over it, bought 6 green sheet of green paper, three of purple and one white (160 gr), and started building the Devastator model. It took me about 4 hours for each leg, so I guess 20 hours is a reasonable time for the whole shebang (2 more lost weekends). I am not sure what to do with the model after I'm finished though... Is it supposed to stand by its own, or does it need some kind of support?

    I am really interested in the personal history behind the specific models on this site. Masamune, why did you choose these specific models? Are you planning any new trasnformers models? The Convoy model seems like a masterpiece. How much more complicated is it than the Devastator model?

    Again, great site! Thank you Masamune

    GEEDUBBYA Active Member


    Looks great so far, dont stop now lol, we'd love to see more pics. And I noticed that this was your first posting, welcome to the forum, If you have any questions feel free to ask, someone will be able to help you I am sure.
    Again welcome aboard!

  3. Devastator history? One aerospace engineer during nostalgic discussion said it couldn't be done... that plebian. Being nostalgia I based the design on the original "G1" Transformers animation. Each part projected and calculated in 2D CAD (DeltaCAD{R}). [rant] It could have been manually designed but would be digitized for reproduction anyway. Use of CAD eliminates conversion steps and speeds design logic.[/rant]

    Devastator exhibits a vertical component stack-up and tolerably symmetrical weight distribution that support assistance is not mandatory (e.g. he will stand on his own). One testbuild was weighted by cutting most of the card scrap to size, laminating together as a block, and bonded inside the Mixmaster foot during assembly.

    Devastator was my first 21st century cardmodel, Convoy incorporated 2 years of technique after that.
    Convoy (konboi/Optimus Prime) was also 2D designed before I proceeded to apply faster 3D CADdesign methods. Not exceptionally complex geometry but I took effort to establish aesthetic body proportions. The build is similar in difficulty to Devastator, some of the weirder geometry concept (Dev-upper chest -_-) traded for simpler-to-build higher-part-count elements, as well as entirely redesigned hands.
    The rigidness of Devastator is overcome on Convoy by parts with ambiguous placement permitting positionability. A redesign will elminate this feature as other builders with other kits have demonstrated lack of appreciation; current in-design subjects are "believable"-pose-built-in to counteract both rigid appearance and builder malaise.

    My selection of subject is personal preference. [rant] I had long since become bored with seeing yet another aircraft, tank, or car that is made by every manufacturer, in all kit variants from mono-color styrene to "broken-toy" (prepainted snap&screw), as well as cardmodel in book, magazine, loose-sheets and DIY craftbooks.
    When I first interrogated search engines for cardmodel mecha the results were of base mediocrity or extreme piracy.[/rant]

    New releases have been diverted to archive because among unknown numbers of people anxiously watching my site there also appear to be HK companies waiting to steal the next interesting kit.
    Low demand, manic depression, occupational oppression and just ordinary poor attitude have not done positive for progression of projects.

    I plan to replace Devastator with a model based on this:

    There are over a dozen Transformers in design, and unmentionable quanitites of other subjects in work or on a list. Such as these:
  4. Amir

    Amir New Member

    Thank you GEEDUBBYA. I am new here (and in the card modeling in general). I'll send more pictures when I complete the rest of the part.

    Masamune, I understand what you're saying about car\ship models being somewhat boring for some. It is really better to build something of which you're a fan. I wouldn't have put so much effort into building a complicated model of a car, let alone designing one. Without knowing too much on the subject, my stereotype of card modelers is of middle aged (or older) men, so it seems reasonable that Transformers models would have low demand when compared to more conventional models.

    I hope you find a way to finance your activity. If you're afraid of piracy, then you cannot publish\sell new models in any way, cause there can always be someone who would find a way to rip you off. Maybe you could find a sponsor or even sell the copyrights to the models. A lot of artists finance their work through donations of internet surfers. I've even heard of a site where the owner posted a picture of a rabbit and threatend that he's going to kill the rabbit unless he succeed in donating 10,000$. He made a few grands I think. Is your website affiliated with any major Transformers site?

    By the way, how do you really find the time to do all these modesl?
  5. I'm not really knocking the common model, I've simply lost most personal interest in them.

    hreh~ ever time me kit pirated me kill kitten mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
    Already been pirated, both on Ebay and by HK, and possibly on the South American websites. Who knows how many cardmodels are pirated beside Aple l-pods, faux Gucci bags, and DVDs (made from theater viewings with hidden-camera) by seedy marketplaces in countries with no laws.

    Marketing kits myself seems like so much incredible effort to cause myself trouble and debt; the risk appears greater than the profit but I may try anyway.
    Contacting rights owners has a track record of invoking lawsuit threats, dizney a prime example of "Thank you for bringing our attention to this, NOW SEIZE AND DESIST IMMEDIATELY!"
    I've contact Hasblo about Transformers: they do not deal with people, FAQ reads they may only be approached by "toy brokers" via marketing department.
    Don't contact Hasbro, they will {not} contact you
    Based on Hasbro's productlines I should have better chances when I contact TAKARA.

    I am not affiliated with any Transformers sites, or strongly affiliated with any other particular site. This is for their safety :p

    Despite being a foul personality I have enough pride not to beg, and do not rely on the charity of others. The idea of cyber-begging hurts my head.

    Time on designs is randomly accumulated, and spent efficiently when actually working on a project. The mentioned aerospace engineer was a coworker... be afraid for I have seen the inside of CATIA and slain fearsome multi-interface components.
  6. Amir

    Amir New Member


    I don't think "cyber-begging" is demeaning if you give something in return, and it does overcome the any copyrights problems or organization problems you may have. If you're big enough to be pirated maybe you're big enough to collect money for your work by using the cyber way.

    The annoying thing for me when ordering stuff from the internet is that the shipping and handelling usually cost the same as (or more) the actuall product (true for a single book or CD). This seems silly in the case of card models or any kind of products which are essentially data and not matter. Even the record companies have started selling music files online.

    I'll tell you what I am thinking of:

    1) State what is the minimal amount of cash for which you're willing to publish a certain model and announce that once you get there you'll publish the model.

    2) All the donors for the model would get free access to the model.

    3) Non-donors would have to pay to download the model.

    Although after you publish the model it would definately be pirated, I still guess that many will not have access to pirated versions and would pay you (it is just a matter of being no.1 on the google search list). In any case, you'd already collected some money before publishing the model.

    I guess this could work if you have hundreds of people (or more) interested in your work. Then again, you can always do nothing, and hear every wiseass over the internet telling you what you should do :) .
  7. As I ruminate on this it seems this variant would be cyber-extortion rather than cyber-begging.
    There is something I find appealing about extortion :twisted: good feasibility level on it.
    I do like the initial payoff, staving off piracy until I have assurance of cost coverage.
    It would require me to set up entirely new website architecture, time for a renovation anyway.
    Problems arise with the donation method. Some don't have, are afraid of, or can't get PayPal or other online money systems. There are those who will ask for exceptions, want to pay by check, money order, creditcard, foodstamps or something, even offer trades. If you don't bend to their desire they get all pissy about it ^o^ Judiciously worded disclaimer, TOS, and FAQ should handle that, "This is the way I'm doing it, if you can't; you're out of luck" :p

    S&H on merchandise bought or bid-on is increasingly becoming the profit, the sale price itself negligible or outright ignored by the seller. S&H should only be actual cost of shipping, packing materials and a small percentage for time and travel. $5 items with $50 shipping do seem to becoming normal for private party sales across the web. Ebay is more of a joke than business, and a trap for the incautious.

    Books and music are transitional data forms, they can be used on a computer, or exported to another media and used (print E-books, CD, MP# players, I-pod, palmtops...). Cardmodels may be transported on digital medias, but they *must* be printed to use (this is the *intended* use, not as piracy material or E-auction items -_-). A printed cardmodel is essentially the final product, the prevalence of home colorprinting has put a gap in the process but correct paper type and thickness, as well as special papers, are more uniformly served by published kits.
  8. Amir

    Amir New Member

    I hope you find a way to pull it off. In the meanwhile, it seems you're doing a good job with your website and this forum, creating a buzz over your unpublished models 8).

    One of the advantages of the models I've seen on your website, is that you give a BW version to be used on colored paper. This saves a lot of ink! Canon have paper models on their website designed solely to make you change cartages every week :(. Overall, I paid 4$ for the paper for the devastator model (one hand and chest remain to be built), pretty cheap I think. I could have bought even cheaper paper, cause a good printing quality is not important with colored paper... I don't think I would have been willing to pay 50$ for the S&H of a better quality printed cardmodel.
  9. Amir

    Amir New Member

    I am done :)

    After three weekends working on it (eight hours per weekend), I am done :). I think I am going to keep a distance from large scale projects like this in the near future, or at least until Masamune releases the Convoy model :) . After I was finished, I looked at the disclaimer again. It seems this model is not to be quantumly transmitted without explicit authorization of the creator. I promise I won't...
  10. yaniv

    yaniv Active Member

    hi amir
    wow g8 models

    and its g8 to see anther ppl from israel thet post on this model :)
  11. bugman72

    bugman72 Member

    Not to possibly hijack this thread, but what would a person need to do to persuade you into releasing the 37cm Optimus Prime/Convoy model, Masamune? I've downloaded your smaller version, but would love to have the opportunity to build the larger version instead. I would be willing to monitarily compensate you for your time and great effort, if that is of any persuasion.

  12. Since n-Dimensional packet compression (n-Pakit) is not in common use, quantum distribution is not *really* one of the larger concerns. If it should be used, the serious problem with quantum mirroring (particle domain replication) would leave the result unusable if voxelation is higher than .05%.

    *Rides his newton wheel around the sagan tree*

    A touch of felt-tip marker in black and grey should clean up those white edges.

    Now, if you should rotate 90 and put two pages to a sheet, getting 2/3 size:
    At least I was still able to build it ^_^

    Essentially Convoy is 95% complete. The instruction page for the hands, then a object-by-object inspection of all the vector elements should wrap it all into a package... less than 1Mb. Whenever it cycles back up my project rotation.

    One business plan was to sell printed kits on EBay, but I've suspended that until I've found an auction site that is not a joke.
    I have "Perlé - Gruppo Cordenons" in blue and red, and "Stardream - Gruppo Cordenons" silver from Paperzone. These are the intended papers for production, providing color uniformity and eliminating the "white edge" factor *if* the kit is built. Intimidation and cost may prevent a buyer from building. The blue is particular bad to scan, and of course the silver doesn't reproduce that way.

    Another route is "proof of build". I post most of the kit, reserving the head and hands for those who show an image (compared to my archive of images) of their own build and acquire the remaining parts for a small fee to complete the model. The "why bother to get the kit if you don't build it" sales method.

    Geometry involved with this "1980's animation version" is relatively simple (I created the whole model in 2D), except for the head and tolerances in the hands. I could sell the head and hands to those who have created their own body.

    Posting the 3D DXF file I recently reverse created from the final pattern is also an option of amusement.

    Then there is the mentioned "cyber-extortion". Of which I have yet to deal with the type of code to configure such a webpage.

    Or I could sell by e-mail request.
    Lazy, undecided, and wishing that water district engineer can find the leak in the mainline so my property isn't inch deep in water >_<

    I've also been waiting for someone to complain that they "couldn't build it from the parts in the instructions", which I have randomly warped to prevent ^_^
  13. Amir

    Amir New Member

    Thanks Yaniv, I didn't think there were any Israelies here, as the regional forum of the middle east is utterly empty. How long have you been into card modeling?

    Regarding the hijack of this thread, I think almost all the latest threads dealing with TF have been hijacked to this purpose. Somehow the attetion is drawn to Masamune's models :D. I've done it here, so you might as well do it also... Greg, if you don't mind me being so blunt, you either have a lot of free money, or really like TFs, cause I figure the monetary value of the work it takes to design something like this is thousands of dollars. Heck, the time it took me just to build the devastator model is worth at least 250$ (I offered selling it for even less; no buyers so far), and I just followed the instructions. I am certain that given the right price, he would be willing to send you this model (at least that what I got from his comments). I just think this price may be high, and it is better to find a system that allows many people to enjoy the kit at a reasonable price. I think my so called "cyber extortion" idea was good.

    Maybe we should open a thread devoted to this with polls and all. Piracy is always a problem in these manners, but if after the extortion phase the pdf of the kits would be sold at a reasonable price, people who know about the site would not go to Ebay for the same product; people who aren't aware of the site may find the kit on Ebay, but this is a group which is not relevant in any case. It is like the African drug companies that ignore the copyrights of drugs against AIDS: It doesn't really affect the revenue of the western drug companies (as the real market is in the western world), it just pisses them off :roll:... Of course, I am only talking from the financial point of view and not the ethical one.
  14. Amir

    Amir New Member

    I see now I was pre-replied by Masamune :). These white lines are a bitch. Which kind of marker do you use (any specific brand?)? What glue do you think is best? Mine leave residues :( By the way, what did you mean by "eliminating the "white edge" factor"

    Actually, building a smaller model doesn't seem more difficult, except for the the face, which has small parts... I am quite unsopisticated and used tooth picks for assembling it.

    Masamune, one day quantum communication systems will be real, and when that day comes, I won't use them to violate your copyrights :).

    The idea of "proof of built" seems like a good one; may minimize piracy and get people more involved.

    Hope to see the Convoy model is one way or another (not too soon though, my research thesis has suffered ever since I entered your site). Thanks for the Devastator kit and the tips.



    I love the robots.How about Tobor from Captan Video and Reject from Johnny Jupeter ? Thay already looked like cardboard boxes.
    You might try a PayPal donate click like the freeware guys and one cardmodeling gaal use. All voluntary; ome will,some won't,i might.
  16. "White edge factor" is the exposed cut edges of a model when color-printed on white paper. It is negligible on light parts, on dark parts it becomes quite blatant (like Devastator's head ^_^). One method is to make gluetabs as separate pieces, this handles butt-joints and "valley seams", but "mountain seams" will have some amount of the inner paper shown.
    Using solid colored paper avoids "white edge factor" but limits color choices.

    I recommend this basic build procedure (can be found repeated in most build advice):
    0> light spray of clear acrylic to seal the ink (artists know this as 'fixative')
    1> boss (scribe, score, groove...) all fold lines.
    2> cut out the parts
    3> fold and test assemble
    4> use felt-tip markers of matching colors on edges that will be exposed (also to touch up after build)
    5> glue and assemble
    6> Clear acrylic spray to seal it

    I use common white glue, usually the ubiquitous "ELMER"S GLUE-ALL MULTI-PURPOSE GLUE" in the USA. Put out a drop of it on a palette (a broken old 3.5" floppy disk ^_^), and apply it evenly to the gluetab with a bamboo skewer. Smaller parts or load bearing pieces may get glued with cyanoacrylate "superglue".

    For markers I have Sharpie® permanent black, a box of old Pentel® and a set of Prismacolor®.
    Just about any decent felt-tip marker will do just fine.

    Glue residue can be countermeasured by careful use, or by painting the finished model with it (if the glue actually dries, not tacky). Painting the model with glue, or "sealing" it, may cause it to warp (moisture content of glue), but it will take fewer coats of acrylic to bring it to a shine afterwards.
  17. Amir

    Amir New Member

    mmm... I wasn't aware of that. Now I understand why your models are so nice and shiny. So the acrylic spray is used for making it shine and protect it. I still have to buy markers for the white lines :(.
    Masamune, what did you mean by "make gluetabs as separate pieces"

    I actually took the picture I posted here under bad conditions with flash. Flash makes white line brighter and glue residue shine. I used UHU all purpose glue, whose residues are impossible to clear (as the picture shows) and is very sticky... I looked at "ELMER'S GLUE-ALL MULTI-PURPOSE GLUE", that's the smelly white glue that kids use, isn't it? I just call it "plastic glue"; don't know why really. I'll use it next time.

    Painting the model with glue sounds like a very bad idea. Besides warping, won't it reuin the color texture? Have you ever actually tried it?

    Good tips, thanks :)
    "Elmer's" is PVA (PolyVinylAcetate), it only smells if you stick your nose in it. Cheaper brands may have a mild odor. "Low moisture" PVA is better for coating a model with, Elmer's is about mid-range in moisture, cheaper brands tend towards high fluid content. I have painted parts of a model with PVA to speed up shining, but waiting for it to dry completely took away the speed ^_^
    The first light clear acrylic spraying to seal the sheet also keeps the glue from running the ink and your hands from smearing it (depending on type of printer used).

    As in FIG.2, most joins will be cleaner looking. Models can be changed simply by cutting off all gluetabs and using scrap.

    Much of this can be found in the "Tips and Techniques" forum:
  19. eddieh38

    eddieh38 New Member

    can some one tell me how or if i can get the Devastator paper model i would love to make it for my kid.

  20. eagleone

    eagleone Member


    Would have been nice to see some pics.:confused:

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