Designing the Su-7, Su-9, Su-17, Su-22 and MiG-21

Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by Paragon, Oct 5, 2007.

  1. edi

    edi Member

    I find it`s a shame to associate Paragon `s designs with plagiats :eek:

    Of course, I do not understand all the fine points of discussion, I am not a native speaker, but so much has been made clear, Paragon creates a lot of fun for the model builder; I`m one of them and they give me a good kind of recreation after a hard job, and that it is what modelling should do.
    That principals of similar construction are similar, what`s the problem?
    Or did constructions by GPM differ from Halinski ?

    The moment I`m building the Vautour, I don`t know any model before.....
    That`s the best to show his way of designing, he doesn`t need others, maybe others need him....
  2. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

    I don't need others now, no, but I did before! I started out with a kitbash, and now I design models straight from the blueprints instead. Hopefully I'll be able to continue this way.

    Regardless of similarities in construction, Ojimak's website says "I hope you do not modify my data." Unconventional grammar due to translation aside, this seems to me to pretty specifically prohibit the use of his models in design in any way (unless you ask permission). I did not use any of his "data", I did not use his files. I did not trace any of his parts, or recolor any of his parts. None of the Su-56 I've designed was ever a part of Ojimak's model, so I don't feel that it violates his terms.
  3. Dragos

    Dragos Active Member

    I say : let's ignore Ojimak !!!
    What is he going to do? Close the downloads again. Who needs Ojimak's models when Paragon's models are much better. :thumb::thumb::thumb:
    Why Ojimak cares so much? No one is steeling from him. Is a free world and as long as Paragon is not copying or modifies Ojimak's models what is the problem.:curse::curse::curse::curse:
    After the Patrouille de France episode I've sweared never to make one of Ojimak's models again.:curse::curse::curse::curse:
    If I'm too angry please excuse me !!!
  4. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

    Well I wouldn't want to keep him from making models, but I do agree that he doesn't have anything to lose. Its not like I'm charging for these models anyway.
  5. Gomidefilho

    Gomidefilho Member

    Technique and project method are not plagiarism my dear friend. :curse: review their concepts why don't I understand of times in times comes people to participate at the forum with that spirit at mean least. :mad:


    I am not fan of the work of Ojimak, but I am fan of his work why with good will and with generosity he offers us great unknown subjects for the manufacturers or designers of models. Comparing carefully what is possible in his technique and in the one of Ojimak I think their models are better.

    As for the fact of some solutions be same or similar. Well that happens, it is enough to take a look in most of the commercial models 1/33 of almost identical healthy MiG-29 the construction techniques or in plastic models of whole P-38 he has the same assembly engineering not importing the manufacturer.

    I don't know Ojimak, but you have a very larger merit as designer, it is here listening to us and transforming the a lot of modelers' of all of the songs dreams in reality. :thumb:

    Cheers !

  6. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

    I agree, there are only so many ways you can build a model plane out of paper. I guess I'll probably wait for some moderator input on the issue before I upload a finished Su-56. Meanwhile, I've moved on to the design of the swing-wing stealth Chinese plane (probably fictional). Once I finish it, and possibly one or two more, I'll color them, and release them all at once. The Mystere will be one of them.
  7. Lex

    Lex Dollmaker

    ...So you mean even copying the design process is plagiarism, eh? Then I'd be sure Halinski and GPM would be filing numerous lawsuits against each other by now... ^O^
  8. Coot59

    Coot59 Member


    The bottom line is you have to do what you are comfortable with. While I think that you are being too restrictive on your self, I can respect that. Models of all sorts are similar in build and parts lay out. After all there are only so many ways to design a fuselage in paper, plastic, or even metal.

    Many thanks for all the great models. I really enjoy them and will be very greatfull for any others that you release.

    Thanks again and Merry Christmas
  9. Panzerbeto

    Panzerbeto New Member

    Ojimak and Plagiarism

    Lets stop this nonsense discussion please.

    Every person who publishes in the net is worried about others using their hard done job to get glory for free = plagiarism. However, every free available program or design has a small print agreement for it's use:
    -Any modifications to the same has to be done with previous permission of the original author = Paragon did it!!
    -Nobody should distribute it without giving credit to the original author = Paragon is giving it.
    -Nobody should obtain economical benefit from it = Paragon is not doing it.
    -If the basic data is modified and put to a different use (ie. different object), then is a totally new object, and as long as the original inspiration source is recognized, there is no criminal intent = Paragon has been very transparent on giving the sources of his inspiration, and that only gives additional credit to Ojimak's outstanding designing abilities.

    A way of avoid missunderstandings is to put a small piece of text in the finished PDF explaining :

    "Designed by PARAGON based on a model of (XXXXXXXXplane) by Ojimak (Ojimak‚ÌŽ†”òs‹@), with his permission"

    That shoul make happy everybody.

    Please Moderator give us a light if this is not the way things should be done.

    Carry on with your wonderful creative wave Paragon and delight us with those beauties.
  10. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

    Update: the Chinese swing-wing is nearly done. I'll probably add a few more minor parts for it to make the swinging wings work a little better. I was going to start on the Mystère yesterday, but I realized I don't have enough really useful resource images of it. I looked around at my typical resources and couldn't find any. Those of you looking forward to the Mystère, help me out if you want to see it anytime soon.

    I'm also considering a fifth plane as well. Like the Mystère, there aren't many useful resource images, but in this case I won't wait for more detailed drawings, because they aren't really out there. Once again, my interest in the fictional, concept, and non-produced aircraft has taken hold, though I imagine this one will garner more attention than some of the others I've done. So, next up will be the Blohm und Voss P.212 Luft '46 fighter that never reached production.

    Then, of course, I have to color all the models before I can release them. Perhaps the set of five (including the Mystère) will be ready for download on Monday.
  11. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

    Quick update:

  12. edi

    edi Member

  13. Stormeagle

    Stormeagle Member

  14. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

    Yeah, those are all the images I already had.
  15. Stormeagle

    Stormeagle Member

  16. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

    I'm having a hard time navagating that site, does it have images, and where can I find them?
  17. edi

    edi Member

    Tunnan and Vautour

    both are in 1/144; the Vautour was to build without any problem, the Tunnan I`ve to build twice, caused by my nonconcentration.
    Thanks Paragon for this beauties

    Attached Files:

  18. Stormeagle

    Stormeagle Member

    It has a truckload of profiles.

    You first choose the era ad the general type of the aircraft and then from the list on the left side you choose the exact aircraft.

    It shows you in the middle of the screen the different countries for which it has profiles for this aircraft. You choose a country (flag) and then on the right hand side of the screen you get a list of the different profiles for the chosen country, with a page count in the extreme right. You click on these pages and you get small previews of the different profiles.

    Finally you click on any of the small previews and you get a new window with the profile enlarged. Any new pickings you do in the small previews, will just update the image on the 2nd window.

    I hope it 'll will help you out.

    Another way is to go at the home page, choose Catalogue, pick a region and then a country and you get the listings of all the aircraft profiles in the site for this country. Pick any one aircraft and you skip some of the levels I described above.

    Good Luck!
  19. Paragon

    Paragon Active Member

    Alright, I'm back! And I have good news! I've got some files that should prove helpful with design of the B&V P.212 and Mystere, so they will definitely be next. I am, however, still working on my very detailed build of Jaybat's Galactica, though that is almost done (just have put on some more guns). I may take some time to build a more detailed Raider and to actually build the Heavy Raider, but we'll see.

    Stormeagle: thanks for the link, but all of those images seemed to be side views, and I needed top and bottom views as well. Thanks anyway.
  20. Nothing

    Nothing Longtime Member

    paragon ive got a book that has 3 view lines of just about every plane.i can scan them if you ever need one.

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