Comments and suggestions on this plan

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by VunderBob, Apr 10, 2005.

  1. VunderBob

    VunderBob Member

    The enclosed plan is more of a doodle than a serious effort. Unfortunately, all I have to work with is Atlas RTS. Also, even though you see the sectional track in use, I'm an old hand, and I sure don't intend to build it that way.

    The plan is the best rendition I could do of Iain Rice's East Suffolk short line, stretched to 10 X 10, with a continuous run connection added. As I worked with RTS, it struck me that Iain might be a little optimistic with his switch dimensions because he's using drafting equipment and freehand techniques, and RTS would be a worst case because you can't really trim switches on paper like you would in real life. Even so, I did manage to cobble together a couple of pseudo-Shinohara 24-20 curved switches when I needed them.

    The railroad is supposed to be a weed choked shortline, with bad track. Minimum mainline radius is 24", with 20" and 18" found on various spurs. No grades. The interchange is a dropleaf so you can use the door.

    Anticipated benchwork is lightweight, free-standing, and designed to be semi-portable.

    I'm not real happy with the plan, because if I put in all the industry that Iain had, it's too busy, and the trackwork can't be done without some real contortions, but with what I have, there's not enough to support the business.

    If anyone can offer some friendly criticisms and comments, I'll be grateful.
  2. VunderBob

    VunderBob Member

    Let me try uploading again...
  3. VunderBob

    VunderBob Member

    Now that I've got it to a size that I can upload...

    Attached Files:

  4. Livesteam

    Livesteam Member

    nice, you can fit a huge yard in the middle or put a long passing sideing
  5. Tileguy

    Tileguy Member

    Just a couple ideas here to kick around

    Attached Files:

  6. VunderBob

    VunderBob Member

    Tileguy, where you have the second wye penciled in on the lower left, the stub end track with the two rerailers shown is a drop-leaf interchange, and the curve immediately above is a liftout continuous run.

    My concept is to 0-5-0 interchange cars onto/off the layout. I don't think I have the room for a staging yard underneath; the 10X10 dimension is dictated by the 10X11'5" bedroom this is destined for.
  7. Ralph

    Ralph's for fun!

    What is that industry on the spur that extends into the middle of the room? When I saw that track I thought, "car float!". A barge with a couple of tracks could supply your road with cars from "off layout". Some could be set out at your local industries and others placed on the interchange track and vice versa. Just a thought. :)
  8. Tileguy

    Tileguy Member

    That penninsula appears as if it could be made up to 26-30" in width and a stub end yard along with that (grain elevator??).The Wye in that area would help operate a stub yard without having to resort to the ol 0-5-0 which is always hard on equipment and preferably avoided if at all possible.
    The Wye will also give you the ability to run east and westbound trains out of a centrally located Stub yard.
    Now, if you could add a couple hidden staging tracks(perhaps behind a backdrop or scenick block on the right wall.This would give you 1 eastbound and 1 westbound offline interchange trains that will help connect you to the rest of the world.
    Remember to designate one spur in the stub yard for interchange and you can operate 1 or 2 differant roads into and around your layout.
    Another option would be to just have one interchange train and a passenger express come out of staging to make a loop and add a great looking priority train to the mix.

    Again, just my ramblings for you to kick around.

    Ooh i just got excited about that express rolling through town :D
  9. VunderBob

    VunderBob Member

    The peninsula is a grain elevator :)thumb: Tileguy for guessing correctly), and the box in the upper right is an auto parts plant. Between the two, that's the bulk of the shortline's business.

    Other planned businesses are: publishing warehouse for bulk paper; plastic pellets for the automotive plant; a heavy and ag equipment dealer; a lumber yard, and a propane dealer.
  10. Tileguy

    Tileguy Member

    You are going to have alot of traffic with those businesses. A stub Yard would sure be nice.A through yard would be better but hey,you cant have everything LOL.
    Northern Pacifics main Yard in Duluth MN was Rices Point and was lined with grain elevators.BNSF still uses this yard to this day.At one time it was a through yard with a Pivot bridge that crossed the harbor to superior Ws.The bridge is gone so its operated as a Stub yard now.
    There are certain times of the year that this Yard gets very busy like Grain season and Sugar beet season.Most of this comes from North Dakota while some comes from western MN.

    You are going to need to have an interchange area with all that traffic destined for off layout area's and a way to sort the incoming freight into trains.
    That is if you want this to operate somewhat prototypically.
    Hidden staging would be nice to have down the road so that you can prestage your inbound Through freights for operating sessions along with maybe 1 road switcher hauling interchange goods and picking up your outbound to another line.

    Dont mind me, i get to typing and my fingers wont shutup :D :D :D
  11. VunderBob

    VunderBob Member

    Another doodle. If you detect the influences of Dave Barrow, you're right. This is a CM&SF variant in the 2K4 MRP, squashed from 12X12 to 10X10, and with a continuous run connection added. Same theme as before...

    I like this one better than the OP. I knocked it out in about 45 minutes (2 hours for the other one), and without any of the contorted trackwork. I could also add more industry without overcrowding. Larger yard for sorting, and more interchange capacity, too.

    The one bad point is that the stub end of the yard blocks the doorway, so I'll have to come up with some kind of way to clear the door. I won't be able to take it off the hinges because I need it to keep the cats out of the room.

    Whadaya think about this one?

    Attached Files:

  12. Tileguy

    Tileguy Member

    David has a knack for building things that he has access to on all sides. building that yard on the backside with a 3o" reach makes it tough to switch.Keeping a yard accesable from all sides for a big one is really nice.Having it towards the front of the layout is only practical.reaching over scenery ,buildings etc to constantly hit switches is nerve racking ;)
    Also, we really need to find a way to turn a train around and a wye is a natural off of that penninsula.Want to get David Barrow involved with your plan??? Join the LDsig at yahoo and the RRINDOPsig at yahoo.Davaid spends quite a bit of time in both along with another few names you may recognize like Bill Jewett,Linda Sand,Andy Sperandeo etc etc

    I need o warn you though, they are going to tell you
    "We really need to be able to turn a train" :D
  13. VunderBob

    VunderBob Member

    I'll try the Yahoo groups tonight. I've corresponded with AS before, and Dave Barrow would be fun...

    Tile, FWIW, all of the benchwork shown is 24" wide. I have short arms and a lateral displacement problem (AKA beergut), so I'm painfully aware of reach limits. All turnouts are within reach, even if barely. Granny grabbers will do the job for the corner spurs if something derails out of reach.

    I have another doodle of the Barrowish plan, and there's room for a runaround using curved turnouts at the bottom where the elevator spur comes in. It's not very long, but it will get my engines on the other end of the cut.
  14. Tileguy

    Tileguy Member

    Bob, a runaround is great but it wont turn the engine around to head in the other direction.
    Will you be using DCC??
    If so,Wiring a reversing section is simplified with the use of a simple module already built.Run a couple sets of wires and it takes care of the Magic of electrons for you.
    See Loys Toys,Tonys train xchange,litchfield station etc for more information on reversing modules.

    Alot of people are sared off from reversing trains due to complicated wiring.Its just not that difficult when in DCC.In DC it cn be tricky however ad operating a reversing section in this situation is damned inconvenient ;)

    Hows things at Yahoo?? Making friends? :)
  15. VunderBob

    VunderBob Member

    Tile, why do you insist on the ability to turn around a train? Remember, I'm working on a short line in the diesel era, and the concept is operating point to point with no bridge traffic (also why I stage 0-5-0 at the interchange). I have 1 steamer for a tourist train, of which there are many prototypes for running tender first on one leg of their trip. I know I have a CR connection, but that's so I can get some laps in on the way to the far end.

    I'm not afraid of the wiring for a reversing section or a wye, BTW. I'm an electrical engineer IRL, and I have an Atlas DCC system waiting for a layout to hook it up to.

    I've beeing lurking the LDSIG group, watching the fascinating :rolleyes: discussions on web page design and train elevators.

    Also, I'm reconsidering a variation of Steve Flanigan's Georgia Southern, which is an 8X8 around twice oval that was published in Model Railroader a couple of years ago. He set the standard I aspire to for photogenic scenery. I actually started to build that one, but it wound up in a dumpster because we moved to Virginia and it was at the benchwork only stage.
  16. cidchase

    cidchase Active Member

    For example, on your tourist train, Bob, if it's a point to point excursion, then the
    loco would typically be turned (or wyed) and then run-around to the other end
    of the train for the return leg. And the turning provision means you're not forced
    to invoke The-Great-Hand-From-The-Sky to point any loco in the opposite
    direction. :D :D
  17. VunderBob

    VunderBob Member

    I did a couple of years with the Little River Railroad when it ran out of Pleasant Lake, Indiana (early '80s). We normally returned tender first, and that's what I want to emulate with the model. I do not know if the have turning facilities now that they run in southern Michigan.
  18. Tileguy

    Tileguy Member

    I dont insist,i suggest.If it sounded as though I were insistant it is only because i am very passionate about trains.Please dont misunderstand me.

    Most point to point railroads did not run thier train backwards back to point A from point B (granted there are prototypes that did do this which just reaffirms that there is a prototype precedent for almost anything)This was not the Norm however.Trains were turned for the return trip.

    If you do not want to turn your train and have the ability for meets(which is rather exciting for viewers) thats fine.Its your railroad afterall.
    Turning a train or at the least the ability to change its direction through a reversing section furthers your layouts operating potential and flavor.It is not however a requirement to enjoy trains.
    Please do what You feel is best for your situation.

    I went to school to study for an Electrical Engineering Degree and was in my 2 year local collage with plans for NDSU's(grand forks) program for the final 2 years. I never finished due to a bad traffic accident i was involved in as a passenger.When i finally recovered to the point of being able to return to active life my wife turned up pregnant.So much for my degree ;)
    How did I end up in the Tile business.Well,its been well over 20 years and i still havent quite figured that one out :D
  19. VunderBob

    VunderBob Member

    Maybe we're using different definitions of 'turn'. Mine is that the engine is in the lead on the road moves, and with diesels that can be accomplished with a runaround. Steam, too, if you're set up for tender-first moves (backup lights, etc). What I'm getting from your posts is I need some way to wye the train, a balloon track, or at least a turntable for the engines.
  20. sumpter250

    sumpter250 multiscale modelbuilder

    People are used to the idea that a locomotive always runs "forward". In fact, most diesels have an "F" marking the end of the loco that is the Front end. It's pretty obvious which end of a steam loco is the front.
    Most point to point tourist lines that I've seen, simply run around, and "back up" for the return trip. If that's what you had in's your railroad!
    The train at the Illinois Railway Museum, Union Il., doesn't even do a runaround. It simply backs up.

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