Color Problem with ModelArt P-40M in 1/32 scale

Discussion in 'Aircraft & Aviation' started by david n, Jul 2, 2005.

  1. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Hey Dave G I agree! Back to the color problem......

    I bought this model from Moshe Lemer site on 08/06/05 and just printed it out and everything looks fine to me. Tail plane is the same colors as yours Dave.

    Canon printer.......Adobe Reader 7.0.1

    David N. I re-read the posts and I might have missed it...... you have tried Adobe Reader......I read on one of the sites that printing in Photo Shop sometimes causes this problem.......let me see if I can find that again and email you the link.......

  2. jijo

    jijo New Member

    Hi John John and All,
    I’d like to comment the center lines on my models in brief.
    As a designer of card models, before start any work on them, I clearly formulate the goal of this work, so it to be the best if some criteria is concerned.
    “The best†can be formulated as something that sounds “Just like a real thingâ€.
    Very easy to say, but what that means in practice?
    Two questions arise:
    1. What is “just like�
    2. What is the “real thing�
    The answer of both questions can be found in optimization.
    The optimization has at least 2 immanent features:
    - Optimization criteria
    - Restrictions
    In this case at first glance is easy to state the optimization criteria – the model should look just as a real thing. But even at this point some difficulties occur. Many of the modelers are familiar with the real thing by drawings, artworks and color profiles, rarely by “walk around†pictures and very rarely with the real thing itself. The difference between these sources is that the modeler has in its mind an impression of the model that differs from the real thing. The rivets, panel lines and many other details present on the drawing, but can be very difficult to recognize on the pictures.
    If the model is designed to mach the mentioned above criteria, there will be much complies that it is under detailed.
    Well, the criteria that I’m using is to create the models that look just like the real thing as it exist in the mediane of average modelers mental impression of it.
    Now about restrictions:
    The card modeling puts some very heavy restrictions on the models’ design. The most important of them is that surfaces with double concavity can not be used. This immediately follows to “approximationâ€. The complicated surfaces should be decomposed to set of single concavity segments that can be bent from non elastic paper.
    This produces unwanted lines that inevitably present on the model. They are visible and despite the efforts of the designer to place them in a way to coincide with panels’ joint lines of the real thing, it’s not possible to do this for all of them.
    How can I hide in this way the joint segments lines on SS1+WK?
    Simply there are NOT visible panel joints.
    At this point the question is:
    If I HAVE unwanted lines that can not be masked in any way, why don’t I ADD some more ones that are useful and somehow help to visually accept the other one. So I add, I’m adding and I will add lines of symmetry on my models.
    The effect of their presents on the models can be estimated very easy.
    Just compare:
    Is the model with removed lines of symmetry will look better then those that has them?
    My researches show that in the most cases the answer is NO.

    That’s all for now. Obviously my center lines comment is not brief as it was stated and the topic is still open.
  3. Getter1

    Getter1 Active Member

    Dr. Z, did you get my e-mail? I never heard back from you.

    Anyway, a buddy of mine has Adobe 6.0 and the files printed out fine on his PC. We thought maybe my 7.0 might have caused the problem so we put 6.0 in and BAM, did it agian. TO make a long story short the problem has GOT to be something in my PC. Something doesn't like page 2.

    Sorry I don't know that much about computers to tell exactally what drivers or whatever I have on this thing but I have a DELL AIO A920 printer.
  4. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    I perfectly understand limitations inherent in card modeling and I will live with some lines which cannot be avoided, but using this as an excuse to actually add lines in such highly visible areas is beyond me...

    Maybe I belong to minority here but those lines bother me. Thankfully there is very simple solution for me - I will just spend my money elsewhere.
  5. OldSalt

    OldSalt Member

    Keep up the good work Dr. Z. I'll continue to spend my money everywhere. :lol:
  6. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Michael you are wrong in berating a fellow modeler/designer.

    Because of your posts and MY own reason I WILL NOT be buying any models from GreMir Models - I will just spend MY money elsewhere.

    Emil please keep up the work, I enjoy building your models. They are fun to build and I think look very good.

    Got any new ones coming out?


    GEEDUBBYA Active Member

    Howdy Guys,

    Ok, shoki, I must say I have read your posting in this thread, and I have reread them, over and over, and I want you to know, that I agree with part of what you said.
    Dr Z has gone out his way to make sure his customers are satisfied, even going so far as to offer free replacement Models....not just parts, models he would print and mail at expense to him.
    And just to be clear, let me state that the part of what you said that I do agree with is the part where you said "its beyond me". It is beyond you, let the man design his models, if you like them the way he designs them, buy them, if you want them designed differently by him.....commission him to design some especially for you. But I think we were all brought up and told tht "if you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything at all.
    There is a difference between a legitimate complaint and a gripe and "nit picking" over a line that the majority of others have no problem with, especially when you offer no remedy other than to basically say "i'll take my ball and go play somewhere else".
    Dr Z. keep up the good work, you may have lost a customer in shoki, but you have gained one in me, so no loss. It is rare that you find someone who will go out of his way to satisfy his customers and also care for the reputation of his designs like you do, Especially not charging the customer something extra should they have troubles with the models or their equipment.
    Anyway, I just wanted to let you know Dr Z, you have lost nothing, I think you have impressed more people by your efforts in this matter than anyone else could have done. Keep up the great work!

    ps, My money will be following yours bowdenja

    have a nice evening guys,

    Greg aka GW
  8. Getter1

    Getter1 Active Member

    I know I'm new here and no one really knows me, but for what my voice is worth I think Dr. Z's models are fantastic!

    It's a shame Michael. I was looking around at Gremir models and you too have great kits but if this is how you treat your competition I too will have nothing to do with your business. You should have let the quality of your kits do the talking not trying to put them down like this.

    Keep up the great work Dr. Z. You have my business any day.

  9. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

    Okay folks...before this gets out of hand, let's put a stop to the direction this thread is going.

    Emil Z. designs models as he sees fit...Michael K. designs models as he sees fit. There are different styles to everything we do. Lines in a model isn't anything we want to be going south on.

    Move this over to Bitches and Grips if you want to keep it alive. Let's keep this thread on aircraft models...lines or no lines...and enjoy some of the fabulous build threads that have appeared here.
  10. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    I do not, in any way berate Dr. Zarkov, or I'm not trying to destroy a competition because I don't even dream about competing against him.

    I didn't start a crusade against Dr. Zarkov or his models. Did anybody see me writing something along - do not buy from him? No. All I said was , I will not buy from him. The question about those centerlines was posted before but it was totally ignored. So I posted it again and finally got my answer. Explanation that the line was actually added to the model rattled me severelly. I do see a need for a centerline mark on the edge of the part (as it's done on almost every other model out there) but there is no reason to have it on the entire segment. That was my only point.

    I asked a question, got an answer, created a storm in the process - diplomacy was never my strong point. If I hurt anybody's feelings, sorry, never intended to do anything like that.
  11. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    Sorry. Did not see your post when I started writing mine - yes, it took me a lot of time in hope that I don't start another war...
  12. Ashrunner

    Ashrunner Member

    No problem Mike. I too have posted before I should have. My personal preference in lines on aircraft is something about 15 percent black. Just visible, but not overly visible. Still trying to find a good color to make the panel lines on my B-52 redraw look right on the silver models.

    Anyway, it's good to see everyone shaking to speak.
  13. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    Dear Dr Zarkov,
    Please accept my sincere apologies for the extremely poor choice of words in my post.
    It was never my intent to berate in any way a designer and felow modeler.
    I also apologize to all who were offended by my statement and hope that we could start anew, forgetting this unfortuante incident.

    GEEDUBBYA Active Member

    Howdy Guys,

    I wanted to take time to apologize for the way I put forth my thoughts on the issue. I have always been one to jump to the defense of others when I think they have been wronged, even when I have blinded myself to circumstances that I might should have been aware of or atleast considered.
    Text is a very difficult medium to convey your thoughts, it is so literal, all of the emotions are removed in text. What may be meant as a joke can be taken as insults and what may be meant as very serious can be taken as a frivolity.
    And, being that this is an "international forum", crossing many different languages, the wording of ones postings can easily be misunderstood either due to the above mentioned reasons or thru various dialects or in my case, just not remembering that people from all over the world come here to talk about card modeling. People who may or may not express themselves as fluently as we are used to.
    And, please dont get me wrong, I think for the most part, the language barrier is virtually non exsistant here, but, there are times that misunderstandings do occur.
    Having said that, I wish to step up and apologize to shoki, for having made some remarks that may have offended him, and wish to extend apologies to anyone who may have taken any offense to the way I handled myself in my postings in this thread.
    So, lets all get on with building and enjoy each others company and friendship.

    have a nice day,

    Greg aka GW

    ps, I realize I am long winded, but when it comes to gaining or keeping people you can call friends, the amount of words dont really matter, its what is meant by those words that counts.
  15. Huey

    Huey Member

    if only everybody in the world can be half as decent as the people here in this forum, there wouldn't be any war. we can only hope for world peace, but as long as people are too proud and ignorant, there will always be conflicts due to perceived persecutions of their culture, race, or religion.

    ps. i'm sure that someone will ask, "if we didn't have conflicts" we wouldn't have much of a military subject for sea, air, and land... but i'm sure we would all prefer a world without war.
  16. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    Good words Huey.

    Glad to hear from you..........but remember Sweden has been neutral for a long time and they have some very good military subjects! :D

    Take care.


    walk stoftly, be nice,........... but still carry a big stick.........just in case the other guy ain't as nice. (to paraphrase a great american)
  17. Getter1

    Getter1 Active Member

    Shoki, I accept your appology if you accept mine.
  18. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

  19. OldSalt

    OldSalt Member

    Well, here's my contribution to the original subject of this thread.

    I purchased both the P-40M and P-40N from the Card-Model website and printed them on 8-1/2" x 14" cardstock using my Lexmark Z810 printer from Adobe Reader 7.0.2. Both models had the color discrepancy on page 2, i.e., the colors are slight lighter or "washed out." Printer settings were "Photo" quality, image sharpening and cardstock. The Lexmark does not have a color adjustment option that I could find.

    I then printed both models on my Canon S630 using settings "high" quality, plain paper (there is no cardstock setting) and color adjustment to "Auto." Surprise, surprise!! The colors were normal on all pages with no signs of the page 2 "wash out."

    I don't know enough about Adobe Reader or printer drivers/settings to figure out what is going on but it is related only to page 2 of these two models. Is there some color setting in Adobe that would cause this? I will leave it to better minds than mine to solve.

    Dr. Z, no replacement pages are needed since they printed fine on the S630.

    Just my little contribution to "science"........

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