C.N. & W.C.

Discussion in 'Getting Started' started by LC, May 11, 2001.

  1. LC

    LC Member

    Yesterday the S.T.B. ruled that the take over by C.N.of the W.C. does not involve class 1 rules, C.N. will be taking over the W.C. in Sept. of this year.
    As I understand it over 250 jobs will be lost in the State of Wisconsin.
    I'm sure more will be released later.
  2. George

    George Member


    Is there any reaction from the state legislature? What are you hearing on television regarding public reaction to all this? [​IMG]

  3. LC

    LC Member

    George, very quiet, I think it's going to take a little time for this to sink in.
    Perhaps it is because the majority thought
    it was going to go through anyway. All we can do now is sit it out and wait for the final word to come down.
    I've got several friends up and down the W.C. that arn't too happy.
    C.N. apparently has stated that the changes will be slow. They plan to put one man in charge of the whole works , and as I understand it he will be based in Chicago. Looks like C.N. feels this will work. I think it's the local service that people are worried about, although C.N. has stated
    this change will not effect that.
    For now it's wait and see.
  4. kf4jqd

    kf4jqd Active Member


    I live in Wausau, Wisconsin. The heart of the W.C. The railfans here are happy to see the new trains come through town. C.N. wants to make track improvements and more upgrades. I haven't heard anymore since last March.

  5. kf4jqd

    kf4jqd Active Member

    Newsline 9 Live at 5
    April 10, 2001


    This is a quote from WAOW TV. Note the date that it was aired. I haven't heard anymore information. www.waow.com

  6. George

    George Member

    Too bad Wisconsin doesn't have Jesse Ventura for governor!

  7. LC

    LC Member

    George, Jesse would have really raised all heck over this one.
    On the other hand I don't know what in-put Wi. has had on this.
    Perhaps C.N. and Wi. did get together and Wi. was happy with the deal.
    I doubt that was the case, over 250 people in Wi. will be loosing their jobs, most of them at Shops in FonDuLac from the sound of it.
    And for those who want to "watch big trains",they should be watching the W.C. in Green Bay and several other W.C. hot spots.
    The W.C.does pull big trains. Was in Ladysmith Wi. a couple of weeks ago, and a C.N came through, one power unit and perhaps 25-40 cars long.
    The W.C. uses three power units and pulls at least twice as many cars if not more.
    I also took note in the last trains issue, where "some big roads consider the W.C. and it's workers second class" or words to that effect. I know that's not the feeling of the editors, but the feeling of "others" in the business. Anyone who has ever been around the W.C. will tell you that these people on the W.C. are just as good as those on any rail road you want to name.

    [This message has been edited by LC (edited 05-14-2001).]
  8. Drew1125

    Drew1125 Active Member

    Unfortunately, (my opinion) we are living in the age of the mega-monopoly.
    It's happening to our railroads, our airlines, our manufacturing sector, our media...
    Eventually, I think everything on the planet is going to be owned by Time/Warner, or Disney [​IMG]
    God save the short line, & the hometown paper!
  9. George

    George Member


    Unfortunately, I feel as good about hearing CN expanding as if I heard the New York Central was coming out of a cave into the daylight.

    What I don't understand is how WC could be doing so well, diversifed with foreign holdings, etc. And after all that, sell off with the state's blessings?

    I imagine "someone got an offer they "couldn't refuse"?

  10. LC

    LC Member

    As I understand it, most if not all of the foreign holdings are in shambles. Those railroads etc. were being run, and still are, by people who don't know how to run them and the W.C. has been loosing big time over the last few years because of it.
    I had heard at one time that C.N. would not
    take over the W.C. until those holdings were sold. That was about a year or so ago when the C.N. made their first offer to buy out W.C.
    As far as state blessings I don't know how involved Wi. was, perhaps they just sat back and let it happen, feeling the S.T.B.would have the final say anyway.
    As far as an offer some person couldn't refuse, in Wi? Very very possible. After all if you have ever watched a Packer's home game you know that the "cheese heads" always wear head gear made of "swiss" cheese, and we all know swiss has a lot of holes in it.

  11. George

    George Member

    I also heard from the outset that CN had no intention of getting involved with the foreign assets. It will be interesting to see how fast they're liquidated and to whom ownership will go.

    Hope they learned their lesson about foreign ownership!!

  12. LC

    LC Member

    Just spoke with someone in the "know" and found out the following:
    At first, and very understandably the W.C. people were very upset, they just didn't know what to expect.
    C.N. has had it's people out talking with these folks all over the W.C. and assuring them there are going to be no "massive" layoffs or anything of the kind.
    C.N. plans to reduce the W.C. work force through retirements, and over the next two years or so.
    W.C. power units will stay in W.C. paint until later, when they will be re-painted in the C.N. scheme, some time in the future. The excitement and confusion is understandable and I think C.N. has done a very good job on their end in regards to this whole matter.
    As far as shipping, there is to be no change their either, all customers will have the same service they now have.
    Perhaps this will help put some people, myself included, get a better perspective as to what is going on.
    I also understand the S.T.B. will rule on this September 7th.
    I think all foreign assests will soon be sold. I doubt very much if that aspect will ever be tried again.
  13. DaveCN5623

    DaveCN5623 Member

    Well I sure hope nobody looses job , anywhere .

    All I have really seen is what Paul Tellier , President & CEO of CN mails out , basically propaganda , but according to him , there will be no job losses .

    Here are some things that this little magazine says that I got in the mail from CN .

    Will any stations close or will service be reduced on any current WC Routes ?

    ANSWER.CN is interested in the entire WC network-if any changes are made they will be minor .

    WC will continue to operate as an independant railroad under the direction of Tom Power and Reilly McCarren .

    Tom Power C.E.O. of WC also says that joining CN opens avenues of growth for WC .

    Personally guys , I see no major changes happening , if any the way it sounds that the changes will be positive , lets hope that anyways .

    The CN IC merger went smoothly . Hopefully this one will also .
  14. CP_milwaukee

    CP_milwaukee Member

    I think it's a good thing for both RR's, and personally, I won't mind seein' CN trains around town [​IMG]

    Drew [​IMG]
  15. DaveCN5623

    DaveCN5623 Member

    Some more on this merger.....

    STB accepts CN-WC rail merger application

    WASHINGTON -- Surface Transportation Board (Board) Chairman Linda J. Morgan announced today that the Board has accepted for consideration the railroad control application filed with the Board on April 9, 2001, by the Canadian National Railway Company, Grand Trunk Corporation, and WC Merger Sub, Inc. (collectively referred to as "CN"), and Wisconsin Central Transportation Corporation, Wisconsin Central Ltd., Fox Valley & Western Ltd., Sault Ste. Marie Bridge Company, and Wisconsin Chicago Link Ltd. (collectively referred to as "WC;" CN and WC are referred to collectively as the "applicants").

    Chairman Morgan also announced that the Board has issued a procedural schedule providing for the issuance of the Board's final decision no later than September 7, 2001, or 5 months after the April 9 filing of CN-WC's merger application, unless the Board determines that an Environmental Assessment or Environmental Impact Statement is required or that an oral argument will be held.

    CN operates a rail network consisting of 3,912 route miles in 14 states in the United States, and 11,620 route miles in eight Canadian provinces. WC operates over 2,464 route miles in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northeastern Illinois, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and over 296 route miles in the Province of Ontario. The principal routes of the combined CN-WC rail system would be identical to those now operated by CN and WC, respectively, with the addition of through routes where interchange or haulage is now required. CN's traffic, between Duluth, MN/Superior, WI, and Chicago, IL, is carried under haulage agreements over WC's lines. Major interchange locations on WC's routes are Chicago, Superior, Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, and Sault Ste. Marie, ON. The applicants have stated that no track redundancies would be created by the proposed merger, and that no rail-line abandonments would result from the combination of the two systems. The Board accepted the merger application, determined the proposed transaction to be a "minor transaction" under 49 CFR 1180.2(c), and found that the application complies with applicable regulations and other requirements.

    The Board also has considered the applicants' April 9 petition for a scheduling order. With a modification to provide additional time for public comments, the Board is adopting the applicants' proposed procedural schedule (which, as modified, would result in a decision being issued approximately 28 days prior to the statutory deadline, assuming that no oral argument is held and no unanticipated environmental review is required). The Board's schedule provides for the issuance of a final decision no later than 45 days after the close of the public record. A copy of the schedule is attached.

    The Board accepted the CN-WC merger application today in the case entitled Canadian National Railway Company, Grand Trunk Corporation, and WC Merger Sub, Inc.--Control--Wisconsin Central Transportation Corporation, Wisconsin Central Ltd., Fox Valley & Western Ltd., Sault Ste. Marie Bridge Company, and Wisconsin Chicago Link Ltd., STB Finance Docket No. 34000, Decision No. 2. A printed copy of the decision is available for a fee by contacting D~ -To-D~ Office Solutions, Room 405, 1925 K Street, NW, Washington, DC 20006, telephone (202) 756-1649, or via Da_To_Da@Hotmail.com. The decision also is available for viewing and downloading via the Board's Website at www.stb.dot.gov.
  16. LC

    LC Member

    Thank you for that input, it's along the same lines we have also been hearing.
    Positive changes are always for the better, it has been said, "if you don't like changes, then be part of them".

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