Bill and Tom's EXCELLENT ADVENTURE in Logging and Mining

Discussion in 'Logging, Mining and Industrial Railroads' started by Doctor G, May 28, 2009.

  1. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    SML BD #1.jpg ties on bridge deck

    I got started with ties on the bridge deck. the dots on the ties show which way they sat in the jig; that if the rail markings on my ties are slightly off center, no one will ever know.

    The joint between the two stringers is the approximate rail center , so I line the rail markings on each tie up with that line to keep the ties oriented. The first two ties are butted up together and glued, I do this for strength at the end of the bridgedecks, and I spike on every tie for the fist four ties, also for strength.

    sometimes if the ends of the ties are not regular enough, I'll sand them some after all the ties are down and the glue has dried.

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016 at 2:09 PM
  2. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Looking good Bill. J E Patterson Lumber should be making money soon.

    This whole area will make a nice place to photograph our various pieces of logging RR equipment.

  3. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    SML rdy to spike!.jpg ready to spike!

    the bridge to the Cumberland mine complex is ready to start spiking!
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016 at 2:09 PM
  4. Doctor G

    Doctor G Active Member

    Another great bridge!

    Wow Bill you have been a busy guy!!! Cannot wait to see this creation.
    Doc Tom:thumb:

    Attached Files:

  5. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    been at it since 4;30 this morning. besides the train stuff I have defrosted and cleaned my refrigerator / freezer carried a suburban full of garbage to the convienience station, did some grocery shopping, got the last of the clapboard off my bathroom wall, mopped up the construction debris in the bathroom and mowed about an acre that hadn't been mowed all year due to I usually bushhog it but the steering is broken on the tractor.

    I have a timer set to wake me up in time to make Jennifer's dinner, cause I might nod off at any time.

  6. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    sml  brge spks#1.jpg spiking the bridge

    So far this morning I have removed a bunch of insulation from my bathroom outside wall, and disconnected the bathtub and moved it out of it's nook, so that Jennifer can try to salvage the beadbord on the insde of that poorly designed wall. Tomorrow is our 30th anniversary, and we are considering having our anniversary dinner in out bathroom, returned to it's back porch configuration.

    Durring a short break, I started to spike on the rails on that bridgedeck. I had some concern since the ties and stringers are a little larger than I usually use, and I had not used cedar before, I was afraid it night make for hard spiking, but it is much easier to spike into than the poplar I have been using. so it should be easy going.

    Bill Nelson
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016 at 2:09 PM
  7. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    Progess at the club

    The spikes went into that cedar wonderfully, so I was able to get the bridge deck spiked before club time. The planning procedure documented in the photos worked like a charm, and the bridge deck will fit perfectly after I trim some homasote @ the sawmill side of the bridge.

    I forgot to bring my jig saw, which I have been using at my 130 year old house, where I have torn out a wall that enclosed a back porch to make a bathroom. It wasn't done well, and the years had not been kind to it, so I'm doing it over. I'll try to bring it next week, so I can shape the bank of the log pond so that we can start to make the banks of the sawmill under that bridge. It's best to get the scenery as close to done as you can before you install a bridge, and they you're not as likely to get plaster all over it.

    I also sanded the ties around the sawmill, which knocked off any ballast that got above the level of the ties, and gave me a good flat surface to lay rail on. I didn't sand the ties hard enough to remove the rail location markings that were put on in the tie cutting jig. Everybody but Eric and I left pretty early, and after they were gone I took a piece of cone 100 rail, and filed a notch for a point to fit into making it a stock rail. I grabbed some scrap flex track to strip the rail from, and took it home, so I can try to make some of the parts I use to make a switch in advance so that progress at the club will go faster. I'll post photos of the tools used, and processes involed as I get to them, first I will need to clear off some space on my work table.

    Bill Nelson
  8. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    SML point: frog piece rail profile.jpg making pieces for a switch!

    The two pieces of rail you use to make the V portion of the frog, and the pieces you make the points out of are very similar, and are produced with a mill file the same way. I have drawn a diagram showing the rail profile at the very end of a point , and at the base of the V portion of the frog. I drew the diagram, as it will show better there than it will in a photograph, since that freshly files metal will be really shinny!

    The rate of taper varies from the pointy end of these parts until the full rail profile is reached varies, the higher number the switch the longer the taper.

    in the diagram the shaded portion of the rail is removed. a mill file works well for this. the vertical part of the rail can be filed all the way to a very sharp point, but is left fatter in the diagram for clarity, so you are after a L shaped piece for one point and side of the frog, and a backwards L for the other point and the other side of the frog side of the frog.

    In our next installment we will discuss the making of a stock rail.

    more later
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016 at 2:10 PM
  9. ytter_man

    ytter_man Member

    This is very informative, ill bookmark it for later reference.

    Thanks Doc and Bill :mrgreen:
  10. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

    Hey guy's I like the engineering on the middle bridge. Was the engineering from the bridge to the rock formations or from the rock formations to the bridge or could it be since it's in our own little world of make believe could it have been engineered all together. :mrgreen: Looks great.:thumb:
  11. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    Build the scenery first!

    Thanks , as I have often said, bridges create their own focal point. when you run a train over one it is hard not to look at it. I have been doing this for a long time; The Dead Grass, Crooked Creek, & Western has been in business since 1967. Crooked creek has always been a main thematic element with the railroad crisscrossing the creek through five different layout arraignments.

    I have made a lot of bridges and learned what works. My primary rule is not to try to build scenery around a bridge. If you can make it work, you will probably have a big clean up job, and it is not worth it. If ypu absoloutely positively must have the bridge in place before the scenery, make it removable, so you can get it out of the way, so that you can mske the best possible scenery under the bridge (remember the focal point thing!) . If the bridge is there, and you are working around it, most likely the secnery will be a little below average under the bridge. If , however you are building the scenery first, before the bridge is built, you can take your time, build really good abutments, and make the ground with rock formations creeks, whatever, and them build the bridge to fit the ground rather than doing it the other way, which usually forces some scenic compromise of some sort.

    Trestles are my absolute favorite type of bridge, and building the scenery first is absolutely necessary with a trestle. First of all The bents determine the shape of the ground if you build the bridge first, and that takes incredible skill and or amazing luck to pull off. Also with the cross braced bents, building good scenery underneath them, without missing up the bridge is iether impossible or too much work.

    Now as to how that bridge was engineered, I wanted to build a trestle there, as due to scenic conditions at the other two bridges on the Narrow gauge, full trestles there would be very difficult to pull off due to existing topography, or the standard gauge railroad, which must be given priority, as it is the main show.

    Now as to how that bridge was engineered, the answer is yes. Now a trestle has to have the bents set at so that there is generally a set distance between the bents. They can be closer together, but they can't be farther apart. The river bottom was already there, in the form of w wide sheet of plywood. The river was too wide at that spot for a mountain stream, so I split the river into two channels , which solved the scenic problem, and gave me an anchor in the middle to support the middle bents, and the sides of the A frame trusses I got by leaning two bents together. A trestle is usually engineered form one end to the other. This one , due to the island in the middle of the streem was engineered from the left to the middle , and from the middle to the right, but also that island was envisioned to support just this kind of happily spindly bridge, which I can get way with as a small consolidation is the largest narrow gauge power owned by anyone in the club.

    Bill Nelson
  12. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    also note that when I do the crayon rubbing to get the shape of the bridgedeck right, If I'm making a trestle, I mark the intended locations of the bents on that plan, and when I build the spaces between the stringers at the planned bent locations. this is important if the bridge is one like the Sanders gorge bridge on my home layout, as the bridgedeck is above eye level, and you are looking at the bottom of the bridgedeck, those stringer spacer kind of disappear up over the tops of the bents
  13. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

  14. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    OK would all of the above be less confusing (I like being confusing!)
  15. ytter_man

    ytter_man Member

    The guys at the club handed me a trestle jig and some wood the other night, because they'd thought i did such a good job on my little 1-foot 2-inch high trestle, that they handed me the job of building a giant 18" high 2.5' long curved monstrosity and construction on the surrounding benchwork hasnt even come CLOSE to beginning.:blink: They're all experienced modelers but i think the only one who's ever done this before passed a while back...

    Mind if i copy your post to explain to them why certain things need to be in place first? Thanks!
  16. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    Any time, that's what it is here for. and there is nothing wrong with making the bents and the deck before the scenery is done, just be sure the deck is removable, and you make the bents longer than needed. After the scenery is in, you can put the deck in place, and make foam core stand ins for the bents. trim the foam core bents untill they are a perfect fit for the scenery (no big deal if you cut off too much), and then trim the bent to match the foam core stand in.

    Bill Nelson
  17. ytter_man

    ytter_man Member

    Foam core is readily available at the Club thankfully! Upstairs the place is a picture framing shop and they use foam core for the borders around pictures. Huge 4x8 sheets heh.

    Thanks again :bigsmile:
  18. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Active Member

    Absotively...posilutely! :wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko:
  19. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

    Hey ytter_man, I do most of my trestle bents before the bridge. Like Bill mentioned make sure you make some longer so you can cut them to fit. I make them different sizes in lengths beyond the cross bracing so they can be trim to fit, then you can add some more braces if needed.
  20. Bill Nelson

    Bill Nelson Well-Known Member

    progress no pictures

    I made some progress at the club last night, but once again forgot to bring my camera.

    On the first switch @ the sawmill complex, which leads to the company store, I had already had the stock rails in place , the diverging side of the frog built, and one point made. Last night I made up both wing rails, fiddled with them until I thought the frog geometry was right (I roll a truck with metal wheel sets through the frog on each route, with a finger in the middle listening and feeling for any roughness). When I felt I was there I soldered the frog together with some lead free solder (it has a higher temperature, and seems to be harder) filling the flangeways completely up.

    I then started to file out the flangeways with a needle file. I need to make a flangeway cutting tool from a piece of hack saw blade for use next week. I also made another point, and got the point s stuck in place temporarily. I need to add jumper wires accross the point hinges (rail joiners) and fasten them to the stock rails, and make a gap between the points and the frog.

    I have got some rail, for stock rails, laid out at the number two switch, where one diverging route goes to the first switch, and the other goes off toward the drying stacks and lumber loading areas. With the rails laid out I can figure the location of the notches for the points to fit into. that is the starting point for the switch, and hopefully I will bring the camera to document the second switches construction.

    Bill Nelson

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