Bergepanther sticker shock

Discussion in 'Armory & Military' started by Jim Nunn, Oct 12, 2005.

  1. nebeltex

    nebeltex Member


    ... IMHO this diatribe by modelers has been one of the most informative threads in quite some time. there are markets and then there are "markets". it is all about what a particular market will bear. it can take years to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one. price elasticity equates to tickling a dragon's tail. for different cultures to assess the buying habits of another.... a journey which may become fraught with danger, especially considering exchange rates. vote with your wallet.
  2. Bernie

    Bernie Member

    Hi all, let me give here my point of view.

    Here in Czech Rep. it is not so bad about paper-models prices. We have several designers publishing their models /nobody of them is a rich man because of paper model sales/. We are next to Poland which is not making polish models much more expensive because of freight/post costs.
    However if I compare the price of one page of paper model from czech and polish production - cheaper is polish one!
    It is up to everybody´s choice which models wants to buy and how much wants to spend on paper models. Of course can be founded some realy expensive models - but you have to think about the volume of pages and if you can make idea about time spended on a build - I do think it is still not so expensive.
    Of course for all non-european modelers it is a problem of postal cost, but if there would be a paper model publisher in eg US, most of european modelers would be screaming the same.
    Best purchase I did is to buy models at Paper Show Ostrava from polish modelers who give very exclusive prices:
    On Kraz255B from Renova Model I saved 25% compared with /not the cheapest one/ czech papermodel e-shop
    On ZIS 5 from Orlik saved 30% compared with /not the cheapest one/ czech papermode e-shop
    Thanks God - paper is great material and if somebody finds some models too expensive - still has opportunity to design own one
    Wish to everybody great time spended with papermodels
  3. Darwin

    Darwin Member

    One bright spot ..... as the price of printed kits increases, it will shift the buyers $ (or Euro, or Pound) to downloadable models. Designers like the good Doctor, Kancho Marek, Nobi, etc. will benefit greatly.....and, as evidenced especially by Kancho's recent kits, the detail of their kits is rapidly approaching that of the hardcopy publishers. This, to my mind, is really a boon to the hobby. As for myself, I much prefer electronic format to hardcopy, even though print quality suffers for metallics. However, as printer (and inkjet paper) technology continues to develop, even metallics will suffer little drop in quality between home-printed or comercially printed. Let the magazine publishers keep on hiking the digital revolution.
  4. swiftsword

    swiftsword Member

    Well - guess what: I just got my very own copy of Rhino, so I'll be making my own models! No more buying! mmmbbrruuuhahahahahahahah....


  5. modelincard

    modelincard Member

    It depends on what message box you're using (it's an option under User CP). With the WYSIWYG formatting box, you just have to click and drag smilies from the "Post Icons" below the message box. With the others, you have to type [​IMG].[​IMG]
  6. shoki2000

    shoki2000 Active Member

    Had the same problem [​IMG]
  7. Jim Nunn

    Jim Nunn Member


    I have been tempted to purchase directly from GPM and others but I also know that if I don’t support the importers of paper models in the US then one day there won’t be any dealers in the US to purchase from. Also as others have pointed out the shipping and handling costs are very high from central Europe often just about doubling the cost of the models so there is little relative savings for me to purchase directly.

    From what I am reading from our friends from central Europe the model publishers need a few lessons in marketing and sales. To state it simply models fall in to the discretionary spending category so if a person needs a new pair of shoes the shoes will be purchased before the model, I am speaking of “Normal” people I would buy the model. I spend about $200 per year on paper model kits this can buy me 20 models or it can buy me two models but being discretionary the amount I spend will most likely not increase. If the publishers want to make more money they are going to have to come up with some good reasons for me to part with more cash. Supplying laser cut parts, etched brass, better fits, kits with correct parts and no missing parts. These could get me to spend more money for my models.

    In my original post I stated that cost of this new Halinski kit being as much as a good plastic kit. I stopped at my local Hobby shop today and they had 1/35 scale Bergepanzer with etched brass parts and other metal parts for a little over $30 so it appears that this paper model is more costly then plastic. I will continue to build paper models for the challenge but like one of the other posters I may start designing my own models.

    Jim Nunn
  8. Gil

    Gil Active Member


    That's very interesting..., wonder if Halinski is aware of this situation. They are literally ending their involvement in the modeling community here. There is a certain amount of trust built into any business transaction and they've achieved a too expensive for the quality of goods reputation. Too bad, this will affect their bottom line far greater than they ever realize.

    Discretionary spending in the U.S. is currently under siege as heating and power costs are literally going through the roof not to mention the rate inflation is reducing the average buying power. Believe it or not I think we just entered a recession which requires several quarters for the government to declare. This Christmas season will decide it one way or the other.

    I once knew a company by the name of Halinski, they were great once. But alas they came to prey upon their customers and died of an empty bottom line...,

  9. Darwin

    Darwin Member

    I agree with the "start designing your own" crowd. Having finally gotten to the brief interval in my life between the last kid getting on their own and being on a fixed retirement income, I have been agressively stockpiling toys for the retirement. I now have a stash of more models (of all media) than I will ever be able to complete, even if I manage to beat out my great-grandpa's record of 102. So what if most of them are not up to the current cutting-edge levels of detail.....I've always been a modeler, not an assembler. If I haven't been satisfied with the kit's level of detail, I've made my own aftermarket parts out of whatever materials happen to be at hand. The end result may not be as slick as the super-hootie laser-cut and photo-etched commercial stuff, but it is enough to keep me happy. I've also been finding out that with a scanner, graphics software, and some time and patience, I can create my own kits that in many ways are more satisfying a build than commercial kits. Is paper modeling going to atrophy, dry up and blow away? Not on your life. Are the hardcopy distributors going to disappear? Damn right if they can't do something to keep prices down. Is the direction of the hobby going to be increasingly digital? I sure wouldn't bet against it.
  10. cygielski

    cygielski Member

    Er.... I wouldn't be so sure. I've been living in Poland for the past 10 years and I have seen the country and the overall market develop from a complete free-for-all into a fairly sophisticated affair. I think most of the big publishers are well aware of market mechanisms and are watching demand very closely -- which doesn't mean they won't try to maximize their profits. Unless I'm very wrong, voting with your pocketbook should bring things in line rather quickly.

    PS. Which doesn't mean that dropping them a note about your reservations would not be a good idea. In fact, I just sent Halinski a link to this discussion.
  11. Joseph

    Joseph Member

    Well I'm not sure... I'd say some of them are still thinking the old way : "I am the salesman, I am the king - If you want my product, you'll have to beg for it" and "Westerners have more money, so it's normal they must pay more for the same product"
    On another hand, some publishers really try to keep reasonable prices (Modelik, Gomix, GPM...), and new publishers have filled the "low price" market (Orlik, WAK) while publishing good quality models.
  12. cygielski

    cygielski Member

    Well, I'm not going to argue about specific companies, especially with a pro...[​IMG]. I was just referring to the overall impression that Eastern European companies are somehow still stuck in a commie-style mentality. Far from it.
  13. dwgannon

    dwgannon Member

    Like Bo, I have only been building for a few years. I still will not cut up the 6 or so kits I have purchased. But I two am not happy with the price increase. I guess now is the time to start learning how to make them my self. The one time purchase of the software should out way the over all price of buying them.
  14. lighthouse

    lighthouse Member

    If it was only that way I could still accept it. But it not the case that Western are paying more for Eastern models as long we buy from Eastern Vendors. They only have to pay more when they buy from Western dealers. This is a direct result of the publishers selling to Eastern dealers to different prices then Western. This migth look like a simplication, but it is obviously that the whole trade Policies of these countries are unfair. We do not have this problems with any German publisher as they have fair prices and conditions independent from with block you come from. I thougth that this blocks do not exist anymore in our global village. I guess its not true in the card modeling world.
  15. cygielski

    cygielski Member

    Something like that is obviously illegal within the EU (fair trade and all), and you could probably raise a pretty serious fuss over it. However, I don't think there is anything you could do about it in the States, unless you wanted to drag the WTO into it.[​IMG]
    Still, I think you're overdoing it by extending this relatively marginal issue to entire countries' trade policies...[​IMG]
  16. lighthouse

    lighthouse Member


    I did not properly express myself sorry. I did want to conclude in anyway to any general trade policy but everthing I said is only meant in respect to Cardmodeling. Sorry for my incorrect expression
  17. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    I am particularly worried over our domestic suppliers who could get caught in the middle of this situation financially. We the modelers will potentially suffer the bigger loss if they decide for whatever reason to exit the cardmodel business.

    This situation also proves to be an opportunity for domestic suppliers to begin cultivating a domestic supply.

    Again, price is always the determining factor...,

  18. Swinger

    Swinger Member

    Firstly, as Simon said, it is not a policy of a whole country, but of the particular card model producers' sector. Secondly, I guess that their intent is not to charge you more, but to charge us less here in Poland. I think they are afraid to increase prices further on the Polish market - the overall sells would probably decrease drastically because prices are already damn high (apart from CardPlane, WAK and WIR). Well, anyway, I'm sure that you can still buy more $46-Bergepanthers for an average American salary than 80zł=$25-Bergepanthers for an average Polish wage.

    Negative. Politics changes faster than economy.
  19. barry

    barry Active Member


    look on the bright side where else can you get 6 months enjoyment for a $8 a month. A sandwich in a country pub in England is £4.90 needless to say I don't buy them anymore !!!!
  20. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    Ok, let's start a trade war over cardmodels. Let the Mouse Roar!


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