Battlestar Galactica models?

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Gearz

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Hey Doc_harvey forgot to mention, just had a quick skim through these forums and I can see why a BSG search led me here, you really DO want a Galactica model! This probably isn't what you want to hear but for what its worth it may be food for thought. Break out the tissues!

Once upon a time there was a poor peasant that really, really, REALLY wanted a model of his favourite spaceship from his favourite PC game! ( That he had to play on his evil landlords computer ) Alas like so many other peasants, he knew that the evil plastic men would NEVER produce a kit of this beautiful vessel. So just as the hammer was about to fall, this poor fellow said to himself "I wonder if I could scratch build a model for myself."

After months and months of inhaling sawdust / glue/ paint/ solvent fumes and lying to his lovely but frustrated peasant wife about all the missing kitchenware, furniture and ever growing pile of discarded attempts at building his beautiful model. He sat down with glassy eye's and started to idly spin the chamber again. NOOOooooo he cried !!! There must be something he had at hand, that could make all his dreams come true. Squaring his shoulders for one final effort to stop this abomination to justice from destroying his world, he took stock of what he had on hand and his skills.

He had plenty of cow dung, though he immediately discarded this material, as his lovely ( but now decidedly intolerant ) peasant wife would never allow a model made of that material in their hovel. He had.....he had ....he had paper YES that was it... he had PAPER! His village even had a set of scissors! PERFECT! this was his ticket to a new LIFE!! Why he had even excelled at cutting out paper shapes as a child at the local missionary Sunday school! BUT as one may have guessed, sitting there the poor peasant soon realised that even though he had a beaming smile, a shiny new sheet of paper, a rusty but serviceable set of scissors, there was something missing? what shapes should he start to cut... ( it made it so much easier at school with the lines already drawn on the paper! - he lamented to himself. )

The poor peasant's spirits sank for a moment, as realised he would have get someone else to draw the lines for him. But what if no one else could draw the lines.. Nooo this can't be possible!!, he said to himself... not when he was so close to his dream. It wasn't hard to draw lines, surely there were many talented people out in the world that could draw lines! So the poor peasant went searching for someone that could draw lines! ( with the permission of his lovely but now completely disinterested peasant wife, who sent him on his way with a hail and hearty "FINE.... WHATEVER" )

After many more months of wandering through the trackless deserts, full of people that spoke strange incomprehensible languages, he found that there WERE people that drew lines... MANY people, they drew MANY lines of ALL manner of things. He started collecting lines, even ones he wasn't particularly interested in, but once he'd discovered these amazingly amazing lines he couldn't stop collecting them! Many more months followed with many and varied interactions with all sorts of people, some were very talented and helpful to poor peasants, other couldn't tolerate poor peasants and weren't very helpful at all, some even suggested he go back to his cow dung.

Somewhere about this time the poor peasant had an epiphany... How was he going to get all these beautiful lines on to his shiny new sheet of paper?? Understandably the poor peasant had started to understand a few of the less mind boggling meanings of these strange languages.. Enough to glean that he needed to seek out a.... Line Master!

After many more months of listening to Sooth Sayers, following their generally good natured ( but sometimes physically impossible ) suggestions, he came to a small shack with the sign MetasequoiaLE R2.1 Was this it??? was this the Line Master he had sort all this time? Why YES it must be.... It was free to all peasants! its very intuitive ( a strange new phrase he'd pick up on his journeys ) It could talk directly to the great Pepakura, the line unfolding master himself!... Why with the combination of the lesser line master 3D Exploration/DEEP exploration ( that he had previously met on his wanderings ), there was hardly a line he couldn't put on his paper. This made the poor peasant very happy and excited! Obviously there were MANY line masters out there that he could learn to use to fulfil his dreams!

Many more months followed as the poor peasant learned to talk to Master Sequoia, He often wondered if he would live to see his beloved spaceship come out of his evil landlords computer... After a "slightly extended" period of trial and error, he finally arrived at point, where he could have a fulfilling and creative conversation with his new line master.

Sure this master had limitations but it was very forgiving of lowly peasants.. Defying many Sooth Sayers predictions, the poor peasant was very satisfied with the performance of his new line master. Why he could even improve some of his lines, without a comprehensive knowledge of geometrical theorem ( another strange term he had pick up from his journeys ) He could even see the day when he going to be able to help other poor peasants put their beautiful lines on pieces of paper!!

Slowly.. starting with simple lines he finally managed to place his favourite lines onto his sheet of paper. Finally the day arrived when he was able to present his amazing creation to his loving family ( who merrily greeted his creation with a thoughtful "What's that supposed to be?" ) But the poor peasant couldn't be deflected from his joyous moment! And from that day forward, he could look at all those lovely spaceships flying across the PC screens with a sense of smug self satisfaction! ( which unfortunately became a point of consternation and mild irritation to some of the other peasants back at his village )

One Sunny afternoon ( while scrapping cow dung from his boot ) The poor peasant reflected upon his journeys and the satisfaction of his beautiful creation. The poor peasant, looked toward the setting sun and thought of the evil plastic men, and knew he would never again be held to ransom by men such as these, although he was quite alone he raised his head and said to them [expletive deleted].... [adjective deleted].... [gesture deleted]....!

Hear endith the tail!...............

The moral ?? Anyone can start to dev their own models, 3D modelling may seem daunting to you learn, but you don't have to reach Guru status, a house builder doesn't have to have a detailed knowledge of forging steel, to use a hammer! Like yourself I ... err.... the poor peasant, just wanted a model!

Two years ago I didn't have clue what a card model was, let alone how to develop one. 3D meshes? - Oh yeah they were something that went into concrete slabs right?? Now I dev all my own models and the occasional ones for public release when I have the time. It will be time consuming and frustrating to ramp up a new skills set just to have a model, BUT its worth every second!

Do yourself a favour and grab Meta ( the R2.1 version, the later has import/export limitations??) Its nowhere as sophisticated as some of the other prg's But hey... who wants to get lost in the tenth level of hell in sub sub menus when your just starting! So why should I ramp up my 3d skills when you can just import straight to PEP you ask? Simple.. extra time spent in 3d prevents a page of patterns, that look like a pain of shattered glass! Most 3d modellers have no concept of card modelling, so although very talented in creative content, the models are rarely suitable for 'unfolding'..

Regardless of how sophisticated ($$$) your software is, the name of the game is to produce a model, that not only you, but anyone can build... so convinced you yet? Give it a go, persevere, Practice practice practice, you can do it!

Hey ....can anyone hear that phone ringing..... mmmmmm... ???

Oh yeah btb... the peasants favourite spaceship was the Taiidan Heavy Corvette from PC game Homeworld.

Pheeew .... Galactica is calling.... seeyuz
 

doc_harvey

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(sob....sob...sniffle...sob...sniffle...

with a tear in his eye, the OTHER poor peasamt responded...

That was the MOST beautiful story me poor, undeserving ears 'ave ever 'ad the great fortune to 'ave 'eard, govner...lol

Thanks for the pep chat! I really spent HOURS upon HOURS trying to get 3D meshes that I downloaded into useable models for a paper model. The ONLY success I ever had ( or ever 'ad) was actually getting a galactica, a old series shuttle and a viper to open in Metasequoia, but every attempt at breaking them apart into sub sections to open in Peparuka all ended up in what only can be described as "a disaster on the scale of the Titanic, the Hindenberg or my last marriage"

I have one wall of my den plastered with printed out 3D images (mostly the Zoic pics), and schematics (most notalby the ones from CobyWan at Starshipmodelers.com) of both Galacticas and both version of the Viper.

Many's th' night me poor, poor old soul has stared at these many pictures and asked the mighty god of card modelling to shine a wee light of divine intervention onto my hands! LOL...thanks again for the pep talk...gues I'll try again....(he said with great trepidation)
 

Gearz

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LoL... Doc I can relate to that on more levels than you would imagine!! It'll slow down the process down a bit, but I'm not one to walk past a fellow "poor peasant". A new model would be great, a new developer would be even better! So I've put the original mesh on the back burner for the moment and dusted off a very basic version I found, I'll post the basic stages with associated files, If you want you can work/practice/dev along with the posted files. The Galactic isn't the best subject to start off with, but hey you never know where it might lead, sjsquirrel this may help a bit.

DISCLAIMER I'm certainly not the best person to give advice, plus I don't want to turn this thread into a tut, cause there are much better ones out there. In all probability some of my methods/steps will raise a few eyebrows. Its just how I taught myself to develop, Its definitely a novices approach. If anyone can suggest a 'better' technique or provide tips / better explanations/ elaborations or CORRECTIONS, jump right in!

Episode ONE The plot so far.....

I have a rough idea of where you are on the map Doc, but If I start monologing on bits you have already have a handle on, don't be afraid to use a 'whacking stick' Just as a point of reference, here's a short explanation of the software and intro to the basic dev methods that I use (with slight variation from model to model).

3D Exploration / DEEP Exploration A must have for conversion work, Take no prisoners! GO GET A COPY!

MILKSHAPE 3D Vx Good modelling program, I use it mostly for converting game formats into usable files. (opinion) META is far superior for modelling.

MetasequoiaLE R2.1 ( Meta ) I prefer the first version. The Only major draw back for basic dev work, is its lack of texture control. Strictly speaking all your textures should be sorted way before this stage, a good bitmap editor can work around this easily.

point to consider Meta hates file locations over 25 characters so try to keep your working files as close as you can to the root directory i.e.. if your model and tex files are in C:\[cardmodels] [amazing spaceships] [science fiction TV shows] [battlestar Galactica] [The Galactica] [ Version I'm working on now].............. AND your model has a texture with the file name "BattleStarGalacticaPortSideLowerRearEngineIntake.bmp" Meta won't be able to place it on your mesh.. Plus I have problems with textures, if all the files aren't located on C:\ drive, might just be my pc?

Pepakura Needs to be reg'd $, but if your serious about Developing its a must have and worth every cent (dime)

Paintshop Pro V4 Yep its a dinosaur, any bitmap editor will do for basic stuff.. .

EPISODE 1

Nightmare # 1
Conversion... its all in the format! Ok you've got a bunch of meshes in whatever format. What do you do with it now! META and PEP can import several different formats. Though.. as you've no doubt worked out, they all have strengths and weaknesses. This is where 3Dex/ Deep can be your plastic pal that's fun to be with (your best friend!) My preference is conversion into Truespace .cob format, from my experience its the only format that behaves its self consistently when importing into Meta. If your model loads up in 3Dex with the textures missing etc , its usually just a texture location/address problem. You can correct this in the [object list] ~ [material properties].

Basically If you can export your model from 3Dex/Deep into .cob format, with the bmp/jpg textures doin all the right things, in all the right places, your ready to wake up from nightmare # 1


Nightmare #2
(META) Grooming..... this is the BIG one, it can be a real time consumer, directly proportional to model complexity! . As said, most meshes are rarely suitable for unfolding. In a nut shell you have to be able to DIS-assemble a mesh Then RE-assemble AND rename the parts in the order you want it. It will be daunting/frustrating, though master this and there won't be a mesh that you cant develop into a card model! = Its a make or break at the Unfolding end. Just think MODULES.. we want patterns not jigsaws! For the Galactica the bridge/nose can be one module etc.. The upper hull of that section can easily be made with three shapes = Good. Depending on complexity, most meshes will make that section with dozens of Vertices (V) and Faces (F) = Bad!

SO.... The first 3D concept you need to strangle is OBJECTS, understanding it will save a bunch of grief and TIME. A mesh builder can designate any number of (V) and (F) into any number of OBJECTS, from just a few to LOTS! Unfortunately they are invariably named really descriptive titles like "tube' 'Box' 'axis' or 'obj_36523' which makes slicing a mesh into 'modules' nearly imposable.. (Clear as mud so far????)

To work around this prob, there are few menus in Meta you have to have well and truly by the short and curlies. The most important is the [OBJECT PANEL] Since we are working on a vanilla basic model we'll just stick to this first up!

The first pic, is an example of the Galactica mesh I started to Dev, Its the extreme end of how Unsuitable/Time consuming RE-assembling a mesh can be. It will make a great model when its done +++++ Time. It has (V) 53000 (F) 67352 that's a lot of little bits that would choke PEP! Take note of the 2 menus circled and in particular the OBJECT named 'hullDet' (Light Blue parts) of the model, its an OBJECT that has way to many small parts, not to mention scattered ALL over the model = bad for developing!

FIGe1a

e1a.gif




Ok heres our Gal in the basic version, similar to many game meshes (V) 1726 (F) 2454 much smaller, BUT we can still reduce that a bit, as well as reorganise/ renames the objects so it just glides through PEP. It won't be spectacular but it'll be easy the assemble = trade offs.. NOTE here, the [OBJECT] names, in particular the highlighted ' HULL.TOP ' (light blue) nearly the entire top section of the vessel! = Bad. As we progress that's has to be Renamed and Reorganised.

FIGe1b

e1b.gif



Although it doesn't happen that often, this is worth showing, its one of the conversion 'NASTIES' you'll come a cross, notice most of the lower surfaces seems to be missing! They have just been inverted during conversion. They are there, just facing "inside' Selecting them and using the [SELECTED] menu and [INVERT] will do the trick and make the little buggers face the right way.

FIGe1c

e1c.gif




MMM... and I said I wasn't going to monologue!.. Its not easy to keep it short and basic..


Ok so that's a very basic "how do I start" .. here's the original/Start mesh Gal00.mqo load it up and inspect it close up.

Practice turning ON and OFF individual OBJECTS (clicking the little eye on the [OBJECT PANEL] and see what bits disappear.

Practice Selecting / Deselecting individual parts from the [COMMAND] ~ [SELECT] ~ [JOINED FACE] menu.

Practice Selecting the 'inverted /missing' parts on the bottom of the mesh and "inverting' them to the right way. DON'T forget to DEselect each section (click on it again) after each Invert, or you'll end up inverting the bit you just did!.

NEXT... Episode 1 / Nightmare #2 continues... "where the bloody hell did that part go?"

Had enough ? :cry:

OR

Would you like to know more? :grin:
 

sjsquirrel

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More - but new thread?

I, for one, would like more, but maybe this is a separate thread from the original galactica one.

I recently found meshes for a Tie Fighter and Tie Interceptor I intend to rework into detailed paper models, and I'm trying to get permission to rework a mesh of the Seaview from Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.

Since Meta seems to be in pretty common use I'd like to learn it as much as possible.
 

BazookaJo

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So where do I find this software?

Where can I find links for the software mentioned i.e. MetasequoiaLE R2.1, Pepakura, and line master 3D Exploration/DEEP exploration?

Thanks in advance

Joe.
 

GEEDUBBYA

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Howdy Bazookajo,

Welcome to the forum, we are glad to have you. below are the links to pepakura and metasequioa:

http://www.tamasoft.co.jp/pepakura-en/ pepakura designer (unfolder)

http://www.metaseq.net/english/index.html metasequioa (3d designer)

I also use another program, "anim8or" to create 3d models you can find it here:

http://www.anim8or.com/main/index.html this program also works with the pepakura "unfolder".

I hope these help, have a nice day,

Greg aka GW





As for the other program....I am not familiar with it myself, maybe someone else can help you with it.
http://www.tamasoft.co.jp/pepakura-en/
 

Gearz

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mmmmm....... Your right Steve, obviously this thread isn't the place for a META / DEV tut, there's way to much info to impart and there's plenty of other forums dedicated to it, just got carried away with enthusiasm. Also, I have to point out my recommendation for META is biased. META is an excellent Ab initio / learning program, ideal for existing textured meshes (game/basic models etc) Though, in the interests of fairness, Meta will take you only so far on the curve. If you want to create your own textured models, it would be in your interests to consider a more sophisticated program $$$?.

Having said that, rather than just coming to a full stop. Here is the basic version of the Galactica, simplified and prepped ready for PEP/development.
Galfinal.mqo Compare it with the first file ~ re-ordered /renamed OBJECTS into modules, i.e. divided/grouped the parts into more practical OBJECTS. Passing both files through PEP will be self explanatory. For those interested, this is the direction you need to explore if you'd like to start developing your own models. Note.. the Engine detail is still unfinished and pretty messy ~ you will find some mesh details are beyond redemption, its easier to start the detail from scratch with card models in mind = as I'm doing for the beta build.

Special Note ~ Just so you have been warned, the only drawback with this method, is that you will have to add most of the flaps manually in PEP, Scary!! but when you get the hang of it, you be able to get very complex meshes into PEP without choking it.

* Just as a parting note, PEP is great, though, if you want to produce really top shelf models, forget about printing straight from / posting, its development, there's just not enough flexibility. Its an extra nightmare ( the kind you wakeup from and your glad its daylight) but export the PEP development to a bitmap editor for the finishing touches, text / arrangement / etc.


OK down to business, Steve you mentioned you'd be willing to test build? This is V1 minus detail, Galactica_BetaV1.pdo its a bit of a sloppy way to approach a beta but I don't have the time for much else. Its still in PEP pdo format.. if you need a bitmap version? let me know. errrr... didn't have time to do any sort of instructions ...or ... part numbers.... But on the plus side, the parts are arranged in a reasonably logical sequence. I did the flaps on the fly so some parts might have extra / not enough? Plus I try to use interlocking flaps on some parts to make it easier for novices, to fold/glue the parts to the correct shape, so their positions may seem a bit odd and unfortunately it doesn't always work. Thanks for the assist!
 

doc_harvey

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parts is parts...

ok...so I think that the "hump" shaped part must go on the bottom and supports the center spar that runs from side to side? But the smaller block-shaped parts still have me scratchin my head
 

Gearz

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Doc have a look at galfinal.mqo ( underside) the three parts make up the conduit that runs from the dome thingy to Bridge module. Just as a guide the four parts would probably be easier to place after you've joined the Bridge and Neck sections to the Box MID Hull section ~ working back from the bridge. ? Did you have any probs assembling the Bridge section (flaps?) I wasn't real happy with the patterns but it was the least number of parts..
 

doc_harvey

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Thanks, Gearz...I haven't opened the .mqo file because I dumped Metasequoia a while back when I decided that designing a card model was not going to happen....I have her built from the nose to the engines so far. The ONLY problem I have had was at the forward aspect of the groove that runs horizontally along the sides of the engines...they buckle out, and I can't seem to find a way to keep them in...I'll send a pic soon of the build so far.....but I LOVE this model...I sincerely hope that you have plans to continue it's development and provide textures and more "fiddly bits"...GREAT JOB, Gearz!
 

doc_harvey

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Reloaded metasequoia today (see how dedicated I am?) just to get a look at the Galactica .mqo file....it is a big help....I definitely need to add some internal supports (like balsa wood and or styrofoam) to the main hull, landing bays and engines...I am experiencing a lot of buckling when attaching parts....the build is really cool so far....I'll freelyadmit though, that I was so excited (or should that be rabid?) to get my hands on a paper Galactica that I'm not really taking my time with it...lots of glue marks, uncolored edges, the main hull section is slightly warped....but for a beta build, it's been a blast and I think she looks awesome. I just have to add the starboard landing bay, and then add the curvy parts on page 6 to the engines and she's done. Don't know quite how to even begin thanking you, Gearz....it's a dream come true! (along with Martin Saenger's Thunderfighter!....now if I could just get a new series Viper, new series Galactica, and an updated version of Aaron Murphy's Viper, I'd be in Nirvana!)
 

Gearz

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Glad its working well so far! Not surprised that she's buckling here and there, I'll whip out the hammer and chisel, and make some internal bracing and templates for the next version. Lots of glue marks, uncoloured edges..... Hey that's what a beta is all about! slap it together quick and nasty, so she can zoom around the room, and blast the bad guys. ( insert appropriate sound effects) You've done well considering there is no guide or part numbers, give yourself a gold star! you'll be able to write/compile the assembly guide with your eye's shut. :wink:


*Do you think the Engine Buckle issue, could be fixed with some bracing/internal template or do recon it needs a bit of a redesign? ,,,,???... as in make the engine module more of a 'box' shape = without the groove, then add the ridges on to that as separate parts? (The flaps can be made to resemble plating)

*What sections would you brace ~ if you can give me an idea of what you had in mind, I'll try to supply them in card with the model.

*Were there any parts that you found to 'Fiddly" or complex to fold? = would have been easier to assemble from smaller sub sections?

*How big is it going to be? = Printed on 'letter' ? big enough / to big?


Master Plan ~ Once the basic construction issues are ironed out, I'll dev some surface detail = bridge, ( build-able ) Engine ducting etc. ?? plus, rather than a bunch of complicated part number/placing issues, I had in mind to supply a page with some generic shapes, plating, pipes etc. Then texture it with bitmap editor for the polished goods.


Thanks for the assist and feedback Doc.
 

doc_harvey

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Hey Gearz!

She's done!

* engine buckle at the forward corners of the grooves may be due to my build
technique...not necesarily design flaw.

* I think that the landing bays and the central hull would benefit from some
form of either internal bulkheads, or maybe just need to be stiffened with
balsa wood applied directly to their internal surfaces.

* I was thinking that the "internal" sections that go into the engines looked
fiddly, buy in my rush to build her, I overlooked the fact that I should have
cut out the white parts and inserted them....so...

* I think the size in pert near perfect...I did notice a reasonably significant
change in size when I printed it out in the Pepakura, vs. printing the bitmap
images (bitmap printed out smaller). Taking all the future "fiddly" parts
(the bridge, the engine ducting, etc) into account, I wouldn't really want to
try to build a smaller version (but I would anyhow...LOL...)

I think she's a beautiful brute of a ship, and even love the way she looks now,
without all her "make-up" on.....You're very taleneted, and I can't wait to see
how she developes....please feel free to e-mail anytime if there is anything I
can do to help....thanks a million!

pharvey1@mn.rr.com
 

doc_harvey

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Nameplates?

Going to make a second (and maybe 10 more...one for each colony?) and was wondering if there was a way to edit the images so I could write out "GALACTICA" along the landing bays?
 

Gearz

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The launch bays can be easily fixed. I'll just slice each into three sections ~ so the 'caps' can be separate parts, that way I can add an end plate to the 'tube' ~ act as a bulk head. ?? Maybe one for the Mid arm point as well? Actually that would make adding a recess in for/aft of each LB doable ~ for a teeny tiny little Viper... Lol

I'll have a think about the internal bracing for the main hull, perhaps a 'slide in' frame, inserted before the 'box' is closed. Guess the Mid arm attachment point, would be a good place for a cross brace as well..mmm.. I"ll nut it out.

No engine recess ~ oooppps... that's what beta is all about. I've done worse than that!

The final release will be bitmaps so I needed to know the sizes ~ Good.... NO smaller!!!!!

'Galactica' name plate ~ YEP you can edit the bitmaps to your hearts content! it will be on the final release version OR you can just add it your bitmap pages ~ add anything you like to any page/part and re print it, JUST DON"T change the page size. You mention the bitmaps were a little smaller but not much I hope.

Just as an example here's P7 and P8 again in two different ways of doing it. The first two pages just have Galactica added to the LB's. The second page N7 just has the words with the unwanted parts cut out ~ Print and add it to the model as a "plate' on the LB's. Also on N7 I've added 'ATLANTIS' ?? not sure.. but I think the Gal had a sister ship??? read it somewhere maybe.... Sorry don't have the exact font but its close..
CLICK HERE FOR NAMEPLATE FILES

Working on the Make-up/ fiddly bits now, so I'll post the extra pages when done.

Thanks Doc, great feedback! First time I've worked up a model without a pile of test build rubble. Full credit to you in the Ai's. Also thanks for the comments, but the real talent is with the guys that build the meshes, without them I'd be out of business.
 
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