Apollo Saturn & LUT

Discussion in 'Space & Aeronautics' started by spacecraftcreator, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Thank you Nero you have helped a great deal. You are correct in that experience with the program will make the difference. So practice and some time will get me to where I want to be. :animated::Bravo:
  2. zathros

    zathros SENIOR Administrator

    For modeling in Paper, Rhino, with it's N.U.R.B.S. capability can't be beat. It's ability to unfold as you go along assures a buildable model. Unlike these other programs Rhino does not use polygon primitives. Anything done in Rhino cam be exported to Maya, but those programs are for animation, not making models. That is the wrong direction to go if you wish to model objects, Rhino is the most intuitive and I can give you a big start. The boat tutorial I wrote only scratches the surface. Blender becomes difficult, with all those unnecessary triangulation. You have to anchor circles with tangent lines and the wire frame models look like crap. Practice and help from those who have gone before you allows you o learn without having to go through unnecessary errors. I am a Master Machinist and Tool and Dye maker and I learned this from the older guys in the shop. They taught and I listened. The best way to learn is being taught. IMHO :)
    lyter1958 likes this.
  3. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Thanks ZathrosI agree with you about the learning...so I am listening:) I recognized the animation aspects and did a little research into Maya and said whoops....wrong track. So Rhino will unfold as well and if so, will be the single program to do what is needed for card model design ?
  4. zathros

    zathros SENIOR Administrator

    You can make anything you can think of in Rhino. There are many ways to make the same thing, some as are good as the other, some will lead into problems in the future. I can show you how to take .obj files and make them useful in Rhino. As they are, they are useless for making paper models, or let's just say, they take many more steps. Making a nice Render is different from making a paper model. With Rhino, you are essentially unfolding each part as you go along, it is just a matter of your preferences how you wish to put the flattened pieces and instructions together. Frame the Tiles of the Space Shuttle, to Nike Sneakers, to the Sets of the SpiderMan, and many other buildings, these are just part of the areas Rhino covers. The list is vast. Another major field is Jewelry, medical instruments, Medical Diagnostic devices, Hybrid cars, it's almost endless. You ability is it's limit, and if you like to experiment, you learn even you. You can make a crazy part, find the shape you need in it, and with one curved or straight line, extrude that line and cut out that shape in views, such as TOP, RIGHT, FRONT..
  5. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Rhino is the answer I believe as far as the software tool needed. Thanks for and I appreciate your input Zathros...... Rhino + practice = project parts :iagree: Hmm now just to find them as they seem to be stuck in my PC :Computer: lol
  6. zathros

    zathros SENIOR Administrator

    I can help you get started, and the best way is learning how to "Sweep two rails". Any part you make by using two curves to Sweep two rails, and a straight line, can be unfold. :)

    This is a quick tutorial on how to make a whacky shape that unfolds. : Click on the thumbnails for full size. Unfortunately, the cursor is never captured, but what is happening is I am selecting under the "SURFACE" category, " "Sweep 2 Rails", those are the two crazy lines I interpolated using "FreeformCurve" under the Curve menu, or from the buttons on the side. I then select "Osnap" from the bottom, I check the "End" Box. You then select "Single Curve", the curve will start when you put your cursor over the end of the line, and then the other end. That line is your "Profile curve. If the profile curve is a straight line, the part will always be "Developable", or able to be unfolded. If you look at the pictures, you will see from the drop down menu after selecting "Sweep two rails", you select the two rails (Long Curves), you then click on the straight line, your "Profile Curve", and hit enter, or your right mouse key. The part then forms, as seen in yellow. You then select under "Surface' "Unroll Developable Srf", and the part unfolds. Now this seems like a useless piece, but if you made a diorama, and wanted a "Banner' that seemed to show wind blowing, this is how you do it.

    Clipboard-2.jpg Clipboard-3.jpg Clipboard-4.jpg Clipboard-5.jpg Clipboard-6.jpg Clipboard-7.jpg Clipboard-8.jpg Clipboard-9.jpg Clipboard-10.jpg
    spacecraftcreator likes this.
  7. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Thank you Zathros.......now to get my homework done....:)
  8. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Has anyone here used Inkscape for parts creation ? Thoughts on the program etc.....
  9. bigpetr

    bigpetr New Member

    Hello Spacecraftcreator, Rhino is indeed great modeling tool, I use it also, big fan, but I would not trash Blender so easily, espacialy if you are on budget. Blender is also capable of Nurbs modeling.

    Polygons are not so bad as Zathros said, it is just requires different working style. (Technicaly, all nurbs surfaces in Rhino, are automaticly converted to polygons for display purposes, so you can see and manipulate them at reasonable speed:)). Also, Maya, Blender, Cinema 4D etc. are not only for animation. They are powerful polygon modeling tools, and nowdays they also have nurbs functionality, as I wrote.

    Rhino (and basicly all surface modlers) was invented for technical modeling, to design things that will be posibly made real, because surfaces are exactly defined in every point. So they have great tools for precise parametric modeling.

    Polygon based modelers (Maya, Blender etc.) was invented to model 3d object that are not intended to be physicaly made and are used mainly in PC games and movie tricks, or rendered as 2d images. That is why they have also animation tools in themselfs.

    Nowdays usage of this programs evolved and blends, and, like Zathros wrote, Rhino is used sucesfully in movie industry.
  10. bigpetr

    bigpetr New Member

    Inkscape is vector based 2d graphic editor. Gimp or Paint are mainly bitmap graphic editors.

    Vector graphics can be resized without loos of quality. Bitmap graphic has its predefined size and resizenig (mainly enlarging) will alter its quality.

    So if you go for "just came from factory" look, you can use Inkscape and final template can be resized to diferent scales.

    If you go for "Worn out" look you can use bitmap graphic editor, because in vector graphic editors it is hard to achieve.

    Third option is to combine vector and bitmap graphic. Every vector graphic editor (ie Inkscape) can import and use bitmap graphic. You can draw details in vectors and use bitmap images for weathered worn out look. Bitmap parts of such images will change their quality when resized, but, because it contains mainly dirt and scratches, it is usualy not greatly noticeable.

    I can evaluate more or post some example images, if you want.
  11. bigpetr

    bigpetr New Member

    Also Rhino have realy great help documentation in it (run function, press F1 key and detailed description of that command, yousualy with short usage animation pops up, reeeealy helpful)
  12. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Hello Bigpetr...... Yes budget is a major concern as I don't have the funds for Rhino and since I do have Blender downloaded, seems like I should give it a go. I guess I just need to know the correct questions to have asked in the beginning. Well apologies as that is my disability getting in the way. Question will Blender give me the tool needed to create and unfold the model ? I know that I can use Inkscape and Gimp for coloring etc with Inkscape being the preferred tool I believe.
  13. bigpetr

    bigpetr New Member

    I can not give you exact procedure step by step because I am not skilled Blender user (I use Rhino). I tried it, because I am intereted in 3d graphics in general, but never use it for for some project. So I know there are tools for modeling using nurbs surfaces (as Rhino does, but probably there is not so extensive toolbox for working with them, because Rhino specialises in nurbs modeling), and there is also this extension:


    or this:


    to export models for paper modelers

    Some designers uses Blender for paper model design. Zubie (http://zealot.com/members/zubie.65458/) uses Blender, maybe he can help you more.
    nero_on_fire likes this.
  14. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Thanks bigpetr....I appreciate the help and will check out those links.
  15. bigpetr

    bigpetr New Member

    No problem :), wish I can help you more.

    Another possibility is Sketchup (Its free version). Revell-fan makes models in it:


    It has unfold plugin, I played with it, but I do not know if Revell-fun unfolds in it. He may unfold in Papakura. I am not sure.
  16. nero_on_fire

    nero_on_fire New Member

    I will definetly give Blender a try. Tried it some years ago but at that time I was still working with Cinema4D, so the differences between the programs were always a problem. Maybe now that I have forgotten most of the ways Cinema works will help me get used to Blender.

    I tried SketchUp a few months ago but found modeling in it quite difficult compared to a "professional" program and basically didn't see it as a "professional" alternative to others. I'm surprised someone is really using it for modeling complex stuff.
  17. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Ok after much review, testing and weighing the options I am going to be using Blender and Inkscape as my design tools in making those model parts and such. Availability, reliability of the programs and what they can do along with the affordability of the software helped in my decision. So yes this is still for the Saturns, LUT project as that is very much alive.Claphands
  18. bigpetr

    bigpetr New Member

    Sketchup has different, but quite easy workflow, when you get used to it. Sketchup alone is suitable for simple boxy shapes. But there is plenty of scripts and with them sketchup can be good tool.

    Tool are chosen then :). And journey to Saturn has started :)
  19. zathros

    zathros SENIOR Administrator

    I think I would go with Sketchup before Blender, it's more intuitive, Revell-Fan uses it, and is a generous person, and could get you started. There are many YouTube videos to show you how to use Skethup (Rhino too). YouTube is a great asset. I use a program called "FreeMake" to download YouTube videos now. It will also automatically remove the video, if all you want is the sound track.

    is "FREE" (approved by Norton): http://www.freemake.com/ Download both programs, the down loader and Audio converter. This program install in your computer, it is not web based, so you always have control over it, and it uninstalls cleanly. I have downloaded so much stuff with this. You just click on the URL, open up "FreeMake", and click on the "Paste URL" button in "Freemake", then you get a list of formats, and if you have the installer, it asks if you want to strip out and only download the Audio. Very easy to use.
    spacecraftcreator and bigpetr like this.
  20. bigpetr

    bigpetr New Member

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