Any CN GP9 with a short high hood ?

[Biased turkey]

Atlas released a new N scale CN GP9.
The short hood is high ( see picture ) but so far I never saw any CN GP9 with a high short hood ( in real life or in picture ) . I only saw real CN GP9 with a low short hood such as this #7016 one ( I'm lucky, I just took the picture today )
Is it a fake ? :smile:

Jacques

 

[doctorwayne]

I think that most, if not all remaining have had a nose job, but originally, they were all high short hoods.

Wayne

 

[Squidbait]

Jacques,

Very few GP-9s were built with a low nose. In Canada, the only ones I'm aware of were built for the Cartier railroad in northern Quebec. One of them is now owned by the Essex Terminal Ry in Windsor, ON (from TrainWeb : Information portal for train travel, model railroading, railfans and railroad industry.).

In the 1980's, many railroads began a program of chopping the noses down on their GPs as they were being rebuilt, to improve crew visibility. High-hood GPs could still be seen on CN into the early '90s, but they were becoming pretty rare. The 4000, 4100 and 7000 rebuild programs pretty much ate up all the high-hoods and spat out the rebuilt shorties.

It wasn't until the GP20 came along in the '50s that locos were offered with a short hood. By the 1960's, the obvious benefits of improved forward visibility made the high hood an option for a few RR's (Southern and N&W), the short hood was the standard feature.

 

[Biased turkey]

Thanks to both of you Squidbait and Wayne for taking some of your precious time to reply.

Interesting fact here, I was not aware that it wasn't until the GP20 came along in the '50s that locos were offered with a short hood and that GP9s get their nose chopped only in the eighties when they were rebuilt.
I always thought that a chopped nose on a GP9 was a factory option.

I ordered not 1 but 2 N scale CN GP9s.

Now my CN roster is almost complete, I just need a SW9/1200

Jacques

 

[Relic]

G'day BT
Try CNRPhotos.com. that site has lots of photos of pretty much any CN deisel. There's also photos of rolling stock and power from other Canadian roads.My only complaint is there are very few{none}roof shots.
good luck

 

[Squidbait]

OK, having finally drug out my Diesel Spotter's Guide, I find that the first factory low-nose on a GP was on Phelps-Dodge #38, built in 1955. SP GP9's 5872-5891 were all built with low noses.

Some GP18's built between '59 and '63 had low noses, but by the time the GP20 hit production, only 46 were delivered with high short hoods, the rest (214) had factory low-noses.

 

[railwaybob]

The CN GP9s were all built with high hoods when first delivered by GMD of London, ON. They ran long hood forward as that was the way all road freights ran. It was only later on that the "back" high hood was chopped, the controls in the cab reorganized and the direction was short hood forward.

This was a major change in thinking as steam locomotives all ran "long hood" (or boiler) forward - except on the ATSF which had some locomotives that had cab forward.

It wasn't until later versions of the road diesel appeared on the scene that locomotives came from the manufacturer with the chopped hood and short hood forward.

Bob M.

 

[Squidbait]

T... except on the ATSF which had some locomotives that had cab forward.

Close. It was Southern Pacific that had the cab-forward fleet.

 

[doctorwayne]

The TH&B's GP7s, freight locos, were set-up to run short hood forward:

Their GP9s, passenger locos, ran long hood forward:

The first time that I saw a GP7, I asked, "Dad, why's that engine running backwards?" All of the locomotives that I'd seen up to that time had the cabs at the rear. (And a boiler in the front.) :-D

Wayne

 

[Chessie6459]

Great Photo's.

 

[wjstix]

The CN GP9s were all built with high hoods when first delivered by GMD of London, ON. They ran long hood forward as that was the way all road freights ran. It was only later on that the "back" high hood was chopped, the controls in the cab reorganized and the direction was short hood forward.

This was a major change in thinking as steam locomotives all ran "long hood" (or boiler) forward - except on the ATSF which had some locomotives that had cab forward.

It wasn't until later versions of the road diesel appeared on the scene that locomotives came from the manufacturer with the chopped hood and short hood forward.

Bob M.

Just to clarify a little: CN was one of many railroads that ran their early road diesels long hood forward...but this was their choice. The first GP-7 demonstrators in 1949 were set up to run short-hood forward, and railroads buying GP's (or most other road diesels) could choose which end they wanted as the front.

For example, Great Northern ran both it's early GP's and it's RS-3's long hood forward, neighbor Northern Pacific ran it's GP's and it's RS-3's short hood forward...but ran it's highnose RS-11's short hood forward.

GP's could be purchased from GM with a steam generator in the high short hood for passenger train operation, so IIRC some railroads specified those units to run long hood forward, putting the steam generator closer to the passenger cars and making piping of the steam lines easier (not having to run them all the way thru the long hood).

I believe GM and General Electric both began to offer low-nose options about the same time c.1959.

 

[Triplex]

Uh... GE wasn't supplying domestic road diesels until 1961. Incidentally, 1961-built U25Bs for UP and Frisco had high noses, though UP at least had gone to short hoods on their EMD power by then. So I don't think GE offered low-nose hood units until '62.

Now, Alco/MLW... 1959 I can believe.

 

[Biased turkey]

Things gets a little more complicated than I was expecting
Thanks Relic, Squidbait, railwaybob, Wayne, wjstix and Triplex for supplying additional URL link , pictures and information.

For example, the CN GP9 # 4403 ( picture starting the thread ) was first CN# 1727 built by GM in 1955 then renamed # 4403 in 1956 then ( finally ) rebuilt to GP9RM ( chop nose ) 7043 in 1992 and still in service.
I did my homework, now I can go and play with my trains.

Jacques

 

[Squidbait]

Going the other direction, a friend sent me a photo yesterday of BNSF 1685, the last high-hood geep in service on a Class I railway in North America. With the exception of the steam generator being removed from the short hood, this old gal is still soldering on 51 years later virtually as built.

 

[Triplex]

I didn't know there were any Class 1 highnose GP9s left. The fact that it's a torpedo tube unit in H1 makes it all the better.