Announcement: My Enterprise Bridge Models

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Master-Bruce, Mar 5, 2008.

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  1. Master-Bruce

    Master-Bruce Active Member

    Hi guys,

    Just a quick announcement regarding my 1701-D and 1701-E bridge models.

    They're no longer available as free downloads. :( I've sent requests for them to be removed from the free download areas of the site they've been hosted at. Reason being I've made a decision to sell more of my models rather than offer them as free downloads. I'm not trying to recruit potential buyers here, I figured anyone at this forum who wanted them would have downloaded them by now anyway.

    I just wanted to make a brief announcement so that any of my friends here wouldn't jump the gun and assume that a new pirate had surfaced on ebay selling my models. I'll be selling them on ebay for the time being until I make a decision on starting a new online shop to sell them. My username there is: bsg_junkie.

    Just thought I'd let you know, thanks alot guys. :)
  2. rlc321

    rlc321 Gundam designer wannabe

    thanks for keeping us posted skip good luck with the selling i hope it goes well for ya. all the best
  3. Master-Bruce

    Master-Bruce Active Member

    Thanks Rob. :)

    I'm just testing the water at the moment. Using my Bridge models to try and gauge the interest papermodels may receive there.

    See how it goes eh?
  4. jagolden

    jagolden Guest

    Good luck on the venture!
    I've not downloaded or built the models but have followed their development and release. Very nice, and from the responses much appreciated.

    Like most I appreciate a free model, but believe more should have a monetary charge for them. Time, skill and effort should be rewarded.

    Over the years, I've seen incredibly simple models for sale, while other finely crafted, detailed and complicated models are simply given away - have not yet been able to figure that one out :)

    Again, good luck, keep us posted when you've got a new site.
  5. Gearz

    Gearz Member

    Completely understandable and considerate announcement Skip. I wish you all the luck with the sales..!!

    I've considered this myself, and it begs the question. Is/ does flooding the place with free stuff hurt those designers that would like to make some cash from their models.? Or more correctly ~ Designers trying to reclaim some of the money and time they've invested in developing their model! ?

    Just as a point in case for the SF genre. I've got a nice B5 Thunderbolt sitting here all polished up for release. Although I would consider it extremely bad form to post it, as Armorman (Bill) has had a great model on sale for a while. As far as I'm concerned that's the end of the story, It'll never leave my HDD ( or my own workbench) Unfortunately I don't think that would hold true across the net. Certainly it compounds the problem when models can now be pumped so quickly.

    Any thoughts from any of the designers here..? should more of us jump on Skip's bus ?

  6. jagolden

    jagolden Guest


    I do think it hurts the designers and the hobby itself. It devalues both. I entered this as a hobby with a model to share. AS I've built a specific line of models, I think I'd like to re-work some small items on them and sell the collection as one disc. Will I? Unknown because the other problem is the rampant piracy out there (another subject). This being said, my models are free - and I struggle with that even for my simple designs.

    Models do seem to be being pumped out at an incredible rate. Bit many of them have no instructions and are not intuitive as to how to fold and construct. Another problem is many are not refined, so the curves are really stepped straight lines. Another problem is many of the unfolded models would be better served if the designers would look at the unfolding and see that just because a program unfolded it, it does not mean it's the best way to form a piece.

    Your last comment about the B5 Thunderbolt strikes right home. I have been working on and off a design for the Revolutionary War "Turtle" submersible. After releasing my take on a "David" class semi submersible, I took u the Turtle and am completing the design-this based on some feedback from those that built my "David".
    Until now, only two people on the PapermodelsII Goglegroups know I've been working on it. Well, someone else released a nice "Turtle" model, for a price, in the meantime. I am still planning to release my "Turtle" when completed. The other model will have had a good lead time for sale by the time I release my free model. The other model also contains a lot of historic background for use in classrooms. This particular subject is open to some interpretation as to the real-life construct and my design is somewhat different than the for-pay model.
    There are many versions of the same model available from different publishers. Also there are some great free models that are the same as some for-pay published models.


    TinPaper Moon Tank Model
  7. CJTK1701

    CJTK1701 Banned

    I'm more than a little confused about this and not really sure how I feel. You do fine work Skip, that can't be denied. I can't deny the amount of work that goes into these, because I've never completed a design as yet and as a novice I have been working on the Y-Wing. Having said all of that I hate to raise the specter of copyrighted material. The amount of dedication you put into your models is self evident, but the fact is that Paramount owns the copyright.

    Considering what George Lucas has done with people that profit from the multi billion dollar franchise of Star Wars, I can't help but think that with the new movie coming out that Paramount may not be far behind.

    There are also the self appointed e-bay police to be concerned about.

    The issue of piracy comes to mind as well. As soon as you sell a CD to the wrong person that model will most likely be pirated and sold on e-bay anyway.

    After the recent issue with Ron Cauldillo's and Claudio's models, I can't help but think that it's inevitable.

    There are a lot of different facets to this issue to consider.

    I respect your work and respect your desire to be compensated for your efforts, but I think this may be the wrong way to go.

    I'm not trying to harsh anyones gig here, but this seems to be the same as selling garage kits and profiting from copyrighted property. Sorry if this offends, but it is my honest opinion.

    At one point I was going to release a garage kit of my own, but I kept asking about copyright and ownership on the forums and those threads were not very popular. It seemed that people didn't really want to know the truth, but instead wanted to see some non existing grey area, where it was OK.

    I now have the masters to that ship, but will not put it out. I'm just not going to sell something that represents someone elses copyrighted, owned property.

    I respect your wishes and respect your friendship. Hope you see that this is just my honest opinion.
  8. Master-Bruce

    Master-Bruce Active Member

    I think you make a good point. Free models damaging or de-valuing(?) commercial models.

    Personally, I won't design a model of something if it's already been done unless I feel that I can truly better the exsisting model. I don't mean to sound arrogant there, I'm touching on the point of models being thrown our left, right and center lately. Many of them are of a good quality and standard but others are not. So if I want a model of something but the existing model of it is one of those "speed" developed models then I'll consider doing a whole new on myself.

    My point is, I try to avoid competing with another model designer where possible, even for my free models. I think it's only gentlemanly to do so.

    I think if someone intends to sell a model, then thought should have gon ito both development AND instructions. People will tollerate mistakes or even missing instructions, smply becauseit was free. But I have seen models fr sale online that are missing them, or that are even poorly developed. I think that is wrong myself, that's why I have chosen to leave my Sulaco model as a freebie. I never saw that project through so it'd be wrong to sell an incomplete model.

    To get back on track, I think free models can damage the success of commrcial models but only if the freebie is of a better quality to the commercial kit. Or in the case that the person making the choice between commercial or free, is in a position that they cannot afford to buy the commercial kit.

    As for making the choice to offer a free model of something that has been offered as a commercial kit? I think choice is good but maybe communication can play a part. Speaking to the designer of a commercial kit to get his view could help. I think as long as you're playing fair and considering the other party then it's all good.

    Joe. I'm not offended at all. I understand your view. The difference is, G'kitters are out to turn a profit to justify making a kit in the first place. Most make aliving from it ven. That's not my plan. I'm only out to make a little something to helpout around here, I'll never make a killion from this and I know that and wouldn't expect otherwise. Also, I'll conitnue to offer free models but selected designs will be commercial only.

    Also, regarding piracy. Surely by offering a model for free, you're making it an easier target to be had by pirates and then to be sold against your wishes?? Just a thought. ;)

    By selling it myself, then at least I'M choosing for it to b that way and not some talentless jerk who just decided to stealsomething and sell it as teir own?

    As for the copyright issue with the movie companies? I'm afraid that can be one long debate that I personally don't want to get into. It can turn nasty as you know from other forums. No offense buddy.

    Thanks for all the support and well wishes guys. I appreciate it, I really do. ;)
  9. CJTK1701

    CJTK1701 Banned

    I'm glad you respect my opinion and can see that it is only meant as advice and a sort of "Devil's Advocate" response.

    To be honest, I was just thinking the other day that you might want to charge for your kits. Your work is that good, but then I got to thinking about the issues I rose above.

    I would be more than happy to accept work and host it for free on my site, I would also be willing to support this site with monetary donations, as I did at Starship Builder.

    I wonder if a donation wouldn't be the way to go, even a small donation to offset costs and pay for some of your time.

    I also wonder if "contract jobs" might not be an alternative. I think you, Oyl, Ron and others all do magnificent work and would love to see everyone compensated for their time and lay out costs.

    I'm just wondering what the best way is for everyone.
  10. Lex

    Lex Dollmaker

    Nice going skip! Conguratulations on going commercial, I'm eager to hear your experience in selling models. Good luck with the venture! :D

    --I don't think you need to worry about copyright as much, from what I know Paramont is not as stingy as George Lucas and besides, Star Trek would long have been dead if it wasn't for fan works.


    Personally I'd like to keep my models free for as long as I can, since I'm someone who never buys models and I don't want to see somebody like me looking over my commercial works but aren't able to buy them ;) I'll only go commercial if I decided it's going to be my main job full-time ^^

    In fact I sometimes liked designing subjects (e.g. WWII fighters) already available commercially (yes everyone above can throw bricks at me for this...) just because I design for public interest and though the subject need a free model for it... Just my 2 cents on the matter
  11. Master-Bruce

    Master-Bruce Active Member

    Thanks Lex, I'm curious too. If it doesn't pan out then I'll return to free models anyway. Like I said I'm not lookin to make a living, just a little extra to help out here a little.
  12. Nothing

    Nothing Longtime Member

    i thought long and hard about replying here as my opinions on this forum usually are responded to with hostility. so all i will say is good luck skip. just bear in mind you mention you had help from an otside source on the bridge models. i think you said someone did the lcars for you? if so they may need to be consulted.

    wish you the best with this!
  13. Master-Bruce

    Master-Bruce Active Member

    You are right there Nothing. I've sent an email and am awaiting a response. I don't think it'll be anissue due t the size of the LCARS screens. They won't be useable to anyone. Also, Deif is a good chap and had no reservations about them being used for this model. Hell, they were created especially for this model.

    As for your opinions being met with hostility? I've not seen this, has something happened? I respect your opinions buddy even if I were to dissagree with them. I hope all is well with you buddy.

    Thanks for the input
  14. Art Decko

    Art Decko Member

    I think you guys are right that price pressure is an enormous obstacle facing would-be commercial suppliers for this market. I can't think of many other products that require so much creative and development work, yet sell for such cheap prices at such low volumes.

    The challenge here for a commercial designer is to do all the required research, design work, test-building, graphics work, photography, documentation writing, marketing, packaging, sales admin, web site design/maintenance, advertising and customer support - quite possibly hundreds of hours of work to bring a single good model to market - yet many potential customers aren't willing to pay much more than the price of a cheeseburger for it. The only way out for the designer is to make it up through sales volume, but in this tiny market, that's not going to be easy, either.

    A secondary problem I see for designers in this market is that for some card builders, price is the number one criteria in their product selection decision - even higher than subject matter. This kind of hobbyist will build most anything -- a P-51 one day, a ladybug the next, and a Japanese cartoon figure after that -- as long as it's free. This part of the market (not insignificant, I think) further reduces potential sales volume.

    So as long as there is such tremendous downward pressure on price, I'm afraid the only professionals this market will attract are those willing to work in their free time as a "labor of love". Anyone else with "professional-strength" skills/talents/business acumen/resources will design some other product with profit margins more worth their time and efforts.

    This is certainly not to say there is anything "wrong" or unreasonable with customers or their preferences in this market. It's just that the market conditions that prevail right now are not very conducive to financially viable commercial suppliers. As this market continues to grow and develop (as it seems to be doing), I expect there will be increasing numbers of builders who are willing to pay for things like detailed documentation, high quality fit, reputation, etc. As their numbers grow, presumably more commercial suppliers will show up.

    Until then, frenzied applause for those "labor of love" designers working for peanuts to supply this field. :)
  15. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Active Member

    Firstly, Good luck with the model Skip! :)

    I'm still a bit agnostic when it comes to this topic. I haven't paid for a model yet, mostly because my limited funds are usually allocated to other needs/wants. I've begun developing only recently and still feel my designs are not up to the same standard as Skip's and others. That, along with the fact that I have downloaded so many free models already makes my conscience flip out when I think about selling my work -for the time being- .

    I really thought RLC321 had a good idea/solution with the Alex Gundam model, posting it for free for a week, so fans and forum members who followed the thread with interest had a chance to get it before it went up for sale. The sale model also has added incentive with the add-ons like the shield gun etc. only available with the sale model.
    It got me to thinking that it would be a good way to go with my own large models in the future.

    I agree with everyone that a model being sold should be as immaculate as can get with intensive instructions, I also agree with maybe getting in contact with someone already having a similar model for sale first, is the proper thing to do. However, It shouldn't be compulsory. (Hope that doesn't sound to democratic... :D )

    Piracy: weather a model is free or for sale doesn't really matter, I feel both are at risk.

    Donations:Could be a good idea... I have no experience with it, could someone who does ask for donations on their website please let me/us know if any donations are actually being received?

    And here I thought of only writing a short message... :p
  16. Master-Bruce

    Master-Bruce Active Member

    Good input Thunder'. :)

    Well, the bridge models we're talking about here were indeed available for free for some months before I came to hs decision. As will my GP03 Stamen model when it's done. Though that will b free to members here for 12hrs before being removed and then put up for sale. A way to remember and consider those members here who like myself are rarely in a position to pay for card models. Also to remember the members who may be able to pay but have helped me in the past with great input, help and encouragement. ;)

    Never forget where you come from! :)
  17. jagolden

    jagolden Guest

    Hit the nail on the head. Even though I too appreciate a free model, I never expect one. Whenever I see folks trolling only for free models my blood pressure goes through the roof. Understandably, not everyone has the resources to pay for every model, but they have to print it and building is not "free", it always cost in materials. Build less but better might work.
    But it's the entitlement attitude that rankles. :(

  18. cgutzmer

    cgutzmer Guest

    Well Skip your offerings here have been great! You and most any of the designers hereabouts deserve to make some cash off their hard work. Go for it, got nothing to lose! Maybe as a sales suggestion:You have TONS of files here. If you plan on these remaining free then bundle some of these free ones in with each offering. You dont need to advertise that these are available on the net free - could be there are some people out there that arent here ;) Just a thought to help boost sales for ya.
    Best of luck!
  19. Ron Caudillo

    Ron Caudillo Creative Advisory Consultant Moderator

    Now that's the way it should be done on e-bay and not just some clown selling CDs! Thanks for the consideration to allow us initial downloading priviledges, but I hope everyone agrees with me, it should never be expected. The desision to sell one's own work is not to be taken lightly. I for one, do not mind at all paying for a good quality model that interests me. (Of course, the cheapo devil sitting on my shoulder is kicking me and yelling for me to shut up!)

    I wish you the best Skip! And I will certainly continuue to watch your work!

    Best Regards,
  20. Master-Bruce

    Master-Bruce Active Member

    WOW! Thanks for the kindest sentiments and encouragement guys. I'm honored to call you guys my friends. :)
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