An interesting B&O box car of 1867

Discussion in 'Scratchin' & Bashin'' started by modelsof1900, Sep 27, 2005.

  1. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    Hallo Peter,

    as first thank you very much for your many helpful ideas finding the right trucks. You are right, Kadee arch bar trucks have a too modern design for cars built in 1867.
    I'm very surprised that especially JAY'S TRAINS offers models of such old manufacturers like Ullrich yet and many others. A really treasure trove!

    But with your description I found back to an own source. I own two (or four) old Gould ore cars that are equipped with very short arch bar trucks, so that I could use them for my second model in order to avoid the modern Kadee trucks.
    On other side - all modeling work out of truss rods is done and I installed a complete hand brake also under frame and trucks (including this one car where Kadee trucks are prepared). When I change now again this model to shorter trucks than I must rebuild a bigger arrangement beginning from hand brake on the roof until a complete brake installation under frame and truck. All parts are glued together and so I think I could get a bigger destroying then I would like to have.
    I think I should finish these both models now! I have found the right lettering and car number(s) with friendly help of a member of the B&O Yahoo-group and finishing must come now on base of the present condition - or rebuilding will never end. My models are built in a very strong used condition so that I can say also - these cars are 15 ore 20 years old and in that time they have got replaced and a bit more modern trucks and they have got a relettering, all such things like railroads did do it in reality also. It was not my prefered idea to build models in condition of erecting time of 1867. My both old time models should have the flair of the 1870 or more yet the 1880 era so that they could stand on a siding track also in my prefered 1900 modeling era. I think that this should be a good compromis to all the many idieas coming while time of model building in last two years and because of unknown facts whom have their reasons in this time that is long time back.

    A longer answer to a very long reply - but with many helpful hints to further modeling jobs. Thank you, Peter. And you can find the results here in three or four weeks, with coloring and lettering in summer I think.

  2. oldtanker

    oldtanker Member

    WOW! You are truly a craftsman! Fantastic workmanship and detail!

  3. pjb

    pjb Member

    Tichy Heavy Duty Arch Bar Truck

    :) This truck is from their model of a DM&N hopper
    mine ore car, and reflects the high axle loadings found
    on such. It makes up to a beautful model with
    nylon bearing inserts, and movable journal box doors.
    The latter is a unique feature, but the truck design is from
    mid 1890s. I suggest again that you consider joining
    the YAHOO "EarlyRail" group, where the expertise to
    deal with this period exists. I believe that someone there
    probably can find a photo of this car, that would give you
    an accurate take on its trucks.
    Good-Luck, PJB
  4. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    First model is finished (nearly)!

    Pictures show the detailing steps of my first model.


    Compare also the pictures in first post of this thread.
    Two of the brake beams are mounted with small eye bolts on underside of frame and I have chosen that I should add brakes at one truck only. Also when the car could be modernized in life time years I will show the differences of my very old models in comparison to 80ties and 90ties of 19th century.
    Because to realize this solution I studied all the literature again that I could get.
    First: In years after Civil War it was commonly that the brake beams were mounted on frame. I think that this was a very insecure solution because the brake shoes must been guided by the wheel flanges and in case of a wide loosed brake the shoes jumped beside of the wheels. But this was one of the brake constructions of the early railroad years and all the pictures and drawing of that time have shown such a brake system.
    Second: In this time it was commonly also to use brakes at one truck also.
    Only a few years later car builders changed than to truck mounted brakes first again with outside brakes and together with this more solid brake they have installed brakes at both trucks for a better and more effective brake system.


    Here the prepared brake gear. All connecting points are movable so that I can give the lever and parts the right position while mounting.


    Trussrods in the typical manner of that time. Also this was a case for exhaustive studies again!
    Until the 50ties and 60ties of 19th century trussrods were unknown items. After that time it was been a necessity to give the frame more stability because the higher car loads and for transmission of the higher pulling power as a result of longer trains. At first attempts simply steel rods were used which were mounted as parallel rods to the center frame sills. Later two (seldom four) trussrods were used often as continuous steel rods which ended at the body bolsters. After they were lengthened to the end sills the rods got a simple connection in center of cars. Again years later the simple connections changed to turnbuckles because the nuts at ends alone did not give the wished strengthening to the cars.
    The commonly known truss rods including the queen posts were not in use before the 80ties of 190th century and these were the last step in this development. Unfortunately this many years later commonly used standard was drawn in the basic sketch that was the basic for my modeling project.
    What should I do?
    I decided to use a solution that was closer to the erecting time of original car. I have chosen four trussrods with simple connections in center and I did not use queen posts. In this case I must make small parts for fixing the trussrods on the very high posts under the car. The trussrods are made from thin steel wire and I added two very small parts which shall simulate the center connection. I hope you can accept my work?



    And this is the result. In this picture you can see like I’m “nailing” the trussroads on the posts, the open inner side of the fixing part as first, outer side after.
    The connecting parts of trussroads are glued in position later if the trussrod are fixed at ends also.


    Now a picture with the complete mounted brake. You can see in one of next pictures that the small chain is turned around the hand brake rod so that the brake could work. But that I can use the model also on a layout I must fix all connections with a few drops of ACC glue.
    The only not fixed connection is the last connection to outer brake beam. This side of brake system did I not fixed in order to mount or remount the truck on this brake side of the model.


    The first model is ready!


    Here the end view with a more (last?) problem that I have had to solve.
    While erecting time the original car has had link and pin couplers. In this reason my model must get knuckle couplers in order to use it as a running part on a model layout. Then I would not build a piece for a show case in a railroad museum! But are uncoupling levers the right parts for this model?

    I think these uncoupling levers are the last compromise that I must do.
    With all my modelling work for this car I started to build a model of a very aged car that is twenty years old or a few years more yet. With this we are in the late 80ies of 19th century or near to 1900 – early time of knuckle couplers. And so the car has got many new parts while its long living time. So the car must get also uncoupling levers or do you see it different to me?


    Here you see that I must give the brakes a more wide distance to the wheels than I would like to do. But I must give the brake shoes these distances in order to get a free movable truck. I did make a first attempt with a many more closed brakes look – the truck could not turn and swing enough and the car did not roll around a curve. I think that this look shows one of the greatest compromise that I must do with my models.


    And a last picture on the connections of the trussrods.

    What I must do yet:
    - I’m waiting for small NBWs as lower ends for the guy wires at the vertical frame posts. Unfortunately such small NBWs made from brass aren’t longer available so I must use plastic parts.
    - I must finish yet the second model where I use Kadee trucks. I know these are more modern arch bar trucks but the truck discussion did come too late. The body bolsters were made and mounted and also the brake was finished. In order to replace the trucks by the originally used 5’ trucks I had must make a bigger rebuilding of both cars. But my models don’t represent the erecting time but a time 20 years later. I have written already the railroads have lived and changing and amendment was a major work of railroads. Are equipped my models really with wrong trucks?
    - Coloring and lettering.
    With help by Jim Mischke, a member of B&O Yahoo group, I have got the right lettering scheme of that B&O time and I have got the original number of this car including an idea for numbering of my second model. Jim wrote that only one such car existed in B&O roster. Thank you very much for your help, Jim!
    So I can draw now the letters and all the simple lettering of that time and give it to a decal maker here in my city. I think you will see that it is the only right lettering for these cars.

    PS. I have written many details about my model project. Sorry again, if not all is written in best English.



    My second model is finished also, here a view on the different ends with/without brake.

  5. Russ Bellinis

    Russ Bellinis Active Member

    WOW! I've been following this build up and the model has been impressive. The brake details take it way "over the top"!
  6. doctorwayne

    doctorwayne Active Member

    Well, these latest photos go a long way towards explaining why we haven't seen too much progress on this car recently. :D :D Beautiful workmanship, Bernhard. :thumb: :thumb: It's interesting to see how the prototype originally provided braking for freight cars, and even more interesting to see the way that you've modelled it. Very well done! :thumb:
    And don't worry about your English; anybody who sees this will have no trouble understanding the high-quality of the work that you're doing. (Your English is a lot better than my German, too!):rolleyes: ;)

  7. nachoman

    nachoman Guest

    holy freaking cow!

  8. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    Russ, Wayne, Kevin,

    thank you very much for your friendly replies.
    The second car needs only the steps and uncoupler levers than all is done.
    Lettering sets are in progress so that I hope for fast finishing in next weeks.

    A nice Easter to all readers of this forum!
  9. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    After a few other projects I have found time for coloring, aging and weathering the first of my B&O boxcars.




    Here I have tried to work with very thin colors in order to preserve the fine wood texture. And I tried to continue the old and aged look also for owner and number boards.

    I will write a few words more about my technology of coloring with last entry to this tried after finishing of my second car.

  10. doctorwayne

    doctorwayne Active Member

    Nice work on the finishing touches, Bernhard. :thumb: I look forward to seeing the other car and the details of your painting and weathering techniques, too. I'm also curious about your next project. ;)

  11. cnw1961

    cnw1961 Member

    Fantastic job, Bernhard, Just like Wayne, I am waiting for your next project :wave:.
  12. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    Preview to next modeling job

    Wayne, Kurt,

    thank you very much. I finished an other job for a friend and I'm now coloring the second B&O model.

    And here a small preview to my next job - a flatcar of 1899 with extraordinary details.

    [​IMG] Picture is used with permission by Black River Historic Society.

    I will write more about this rare car with opening the new thread.
    Edit: The new thread Lake Terminal RR. 66’ gondola of 1899 is opened.

  13. steamhead

    steamhead Active Member

    Mega-fantastic..!!! What an absolutely great job..!!

    Museum+quality..!! I guess I just ran out of superlative-adjectives...
    When I grow up (??) I want to be able to build like that..!! :eek:

    Thanks for making a lot of us' days..!!

    Can't wait to see what comes up next..:thumb:
  14. modelsof1900

    modelsof1900 Member

    Finitely done, this job is history!

    Now after two years of work my both B&O cars can start their model railroad career.


    Both models are finished, aged and weathered and all what I must do yet is to make a few photos on a good layout.
    I think these models are the both most time consuming models that I built until today; also when I did not built all days – time was too long. Each of the models is built from approximate single 750 parts; also a new record to me. (I know that many models of other model builders are built from a few thousand parts – they have my biggest respect for their work.)

    Now yet a few pictures and comments as I colored and aged these models. The highest principle should be that the wood texture must be visible after coloring and that the models must look like very old and extremely used pieces of rolling stock.
    So I “aged” all the boards and the whole wood construction while building process, broken boards and a very drooped frame.
    And what for a color should I give these models? In a discussion with members of the B&O Yahoo-group I have got the answer: Cars of that time have had a “freight car brown” color, a “medium dark shoe polish brown” - a good definition to use a brown paint like I can find it in each model shop here.


    First step was coloring the whole car with a very thin gray paint that I thinned with a dissolver so that the paint was 1 part only to 10 parts of dissolver. Background is here – the wood should soaking in the “paint” in order to give the blank wood a very close look to real uncoloured old wood.


    Next was „coloring“ the roof with chalks. Here I used only a red-brown chalk as I also used a bit of white and dark brown chalks. I washed the chalks in the wood again it with a lot of color thinner and where the color was to dark or not right than I washed out the color again until I was satisfied with the result. Here in picture is seen that I colored the lower side of roof, upper side has the gray color of first step yet.


    This picture shows the ready colored roof of my first model. It has got a more color spectrum and I like it with this “colorful” roof.


    In next step I airbrushed the whole body with a red-brown color without the roof. I used again a very thin paint for sides, ends and underside of car. Like before I washed out the paint …


    … and I changed the brown basic paint by adding red-brown chalks and especially I added white chalk around the door. I think this must be done because the load was wheat flour transported in wood barrels. And I’m sure that a barrel was destroyed while loading or unloading from time to time and all the white flour colored the car inside and also outside around the door.

    I think until here it was a logical process in order to get nice models where the original car was built in 1867 and where I will use the models in my preferred 1900 modeling era.

    I real big problem was to find the right lettering for this models. I have got photos from a tender of 1835 with a very good looking lettering. And I have had pictures around 1880 or 1890. But how was the lettering ca. 1870 in building time of the original? Can I use these lettering also for my 1900 modelling era?
    Again with help of Jim Mischke, a member of B&O Yahoo-group, I have got a picture of an old time boxcar of 1870 era, good enough to make a few scale pictures and to draw an own set of decals.


    A friendly surprise was that this old picture does not show more lettering then these four letterings – the owner, car number, weight and capacity. Not one signs more!
    I think that it was enough for knowing of the car dates in this time. All other dates are of newer time when more information about the stock was needed. This simplicity was a lucky way obtaining a correct lettering for my models.

    The picture shows two sections of the original picture and over like under the original lettering I placed B&O decals which I have drawn after this original. I think you can see few small differences between original and my characters, here especially the digit “7”. I was not sure that this “7” could be an original digit in this character set. The differences to all other letters and digits with their straight lines are too evidently. So I made a compromise more and I have drawn a more adjusted “7”.

    But form of characters was not the last problem. What for a number has had the original car?
    Also here I have got helpful information from Jim Mischke. “The B&O clearance diagram indicates there was only one such car, #17998, built in November 1867.”
    I was lucky to get this hint – but I have built two models. Also for this I have got the answer from Jim: “A car number 17998 suggests another, a 17999. Whether it really
    existed or not. Experimental cars often tended to be in the upper part of a number series (that is, not 17000, 17001), just in case it didn't work out. If there had been two, it would be 17999. The 17998 is such an oddball number, maybe a 17999 was planned.”
    And I have built this planned car as model, my second car has got the no. 17999.

    Next question was – Must I decaling the model directly on the side walls?
    I know that this is the ordinary way. Was this valid also at such old cars with outside bracing? I thought that outside mounted lettering boards could be a good looking solution that shows a more different of this old time car to younger rolling stock.
    So I have done it.


    Three wood strips are connected by crossing wood strips on backside for a larger owner board and a smaller number board. As second they have got same airbrushing with brown paint like basic coloring of the car.


    Owner boards and number boards are decaled ...


    … and after this I grinded down the backside wood strips …


    … so that I have got single planks with a divided lettering. It is also not a problem when like here a small part of a plank is broken off. I think that an old piece of wood can got such small demages. In this case it was not intended but it looks very realistic.
    Why did I this?


    These cars sagged down because their using in railroad service and their aging whiles a very long time. All posts of car construction are moved against each other. And this must I do also with each single board of lettering panels.
    Here the boards are glued on posts …


    … and I have they fixed with „nails“ – short wire pieces.


    The doors have got an additional lettering „FLOUR BARRELS ONLY” which documents the load of this special car.


    And after them the lettering areas received an aging and weathering like the whole car it has got before already. Not one of the characters shows the clear white color after this step.


    Here a detail of these aged cars. What I like to do – the lettering has got small white washouts by water and rain.


    And the proof - I can open the doors.

    Truck side frames, wheel sets, all brake parts and couplers have got also a similar aging by an ochre-brown coating – and ready was the second model.
    In all respects I watched that not one part of the models has got a shining surface. And the wood texture must be preserved so that you can see that these models are built not from plastic but from wood like the originals cars was built also.

    I think that I have done it.

  15. MasonJar

    MasonJar It's not rocket surgery

    Those cars are absolute masterpieces! Congratulations on a job very, very well done!! :thumb: :thumb: :D

    Simply incredible, Bernhard! Thanks also for sharing your techniques, which I am sure will inspire many others. ;)

  16. doctorwayne

    doctorwayne Active Member

    A very well-thought-out painting and weathering procedure, Bernhard, and an excellent job overall.

  17. bigsteel

    bigsteel Call me Mr.Tinkertrain

    some of the best modelling i've ever seen bernhard! the overall project was just amazing.cant wait to see that new flatcar thread :thumb:.great job.--josh
  18. steamhead

    steamhead Active Member

    You sure have done it..!!!! Never have I seen anything like it..!!! My heartiest congratulations..!!
  19. doctorwayne

    doctorwayne Active Member

    Just curious, Bernhard, but do you intend to build a loco to pull these beautifully-done cars, or do you have a commercially available model in mind?

  20. viperman

    viperman Active Member

    holy cow! Those came out great! I expect as much from you, but those still blow me away! Can I have one?

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