Discussion in 'Zealot Archives' started by possm_23, May 26, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    A couple of weeks ago I was cleaning up a job site after we had just finished putting up a steel building and was standing in the dumpster stuffing down fiberglass insulation and getting really itchy and it was the day after the "Day without Immigrants" and I thought to myself "whiteguys won't do this kind of work, Yeah right."

    My boss uses a payroll service so he doesn't have to do a lot of paperwork and he told me once that he payed as much in insurance, workmans comp, and taxes as I received in my paycheck and therefore I could be getting a couple buck an hour more than I am now and the reason is Illegals come in and undercut those that do it legally. That line about Americans not taking dirty jobs is a lot of BS. Follow the money and you'll find the truth.
  2. cygielski

    cygielski Member

    Well, there's the bit about the US economy being almost chronically competitive. This forces small businesses to cut costs wherever they can -- and employment is one of them. Think of a restaurant owner - hire your busboys legally, and the guy down the street will get your customers, because everything on your menu will HAVE to be more expensive to make up for the extra costs. There's a reason why the US economy is more productive than the European, and it's not all about Europeans being lazy and spoiled. :) America does owe at least some part of its affluence to cheap labor by illegals. Doesn't make it right, but it's a fact nonetheless.

    The funny thing is that even Poland, which is much poorer than the US, also has illegal immigrants, mostly from Asia and the former USSR, who increasingly end up doing jobs that Poles do (sometimes illegally) in the West. I'm sure it's the same in many parts of the world.
  3. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    So somewhere in the world is a place where NO-One wants to stay put. I wonder where that is?

    Tim P
  4. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

    FIJI................. :grin:
  5. paper warrior

    paper warrior Member

    Thing is, a lot of Americans are too lazy to work, that leaves a gap for Mexico to fill.If a lot of Americans started raising their kids better I wouldn't have to learn Spanish either.
    Also I have invented a means of a system to produce infinite amounts of electricity(electric car anyone?)if anyones interested.
  6. rowiac

    rowiac Member

    I ignored this thread earlier, but at the risk of starting an argument, I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

    Back in the good ol' days (1970's) early teen and pre-teen kids used to be able to get summer jobs mowing lawns and other yard work, and make a few bucks to go to the movies or whatever they wanted to do. Nowadays these jobs are no longer available because they have been largely taken over by immigrants (mostly illegal from Mexico here in California).

    I see at least two problems with this: (1) kids don't have a chance to learn a work ethic early in life, and (2) there's a stigma attached to jobs "illegals" do, and so the kids don't want do them.

    I see this stigma becoming attached to fast food jobs as well, now that more and more Mexican & South American immigrants are taking those jobs over. As an example, I was at a local Wendy's the other day, and everyone working in there was Hispanic. The only one who spoke English reasonable well was the manager, and she spent all her time yelling at all the employees in Spanish. How can a regular American kid be expected to work in that envirionment?

    I know there is a certain amount of legal immigration allowed in the US from each country, but the flood of Spanish speaking immigrants seems to be very high, and I can't imagine that all these people in construction jobs, fast food, etc. are all legal.

    My solution would be to severely prosecute the employers of illegals, which would cause the jobs to dry up. That would force the Mexican government to do something about their oppressive economic system rather than allow them to continue to use the US as their form of welfare.

    No offense to Mexicans and other Spanish speaking people. I just think the main problem is with the Mexican government taking advantage of the freedoms available in the United States, and not trying to help their own people.

    There is plenty more to be said on the subject, but that could go on forever...
  7. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

    I posted a comment on this earlier but it is still a touchy subject with me and I'm going to vent a little more. I said in my earlier post that it's a bunch of BS that Americans won't do that kind of work. If you beleive that then I must not be an American(I am as white as they come except for my farmers tan and have several generations worth of ancestors born in this wonderful country) and the same goes for my boss and everyone who works for us right now. I personally like the work(I build houses) and will miss it when I finally get through school and start my career.

    Rowiac has a good point about putting pressure on the employers to not hire illegals. My boss has to pay roughly as much in taxes and all the other regulatory crap for each paycheck he gives me as I get in take home money(after taxes). The logic isn't hard to follow but I'll spell it out anyway. Employers can pay lower wages to illegals and it costs them less and the illegals actually make more money than I do while supposedly getting a lower wage.

    And at the same time we insist on educating them paying hospital bills and all that other stuff that they aren't paying for because no one collects taxes from them. No wonder our tax rate is 47%. Right now there are jobs open to Americans that we can make more money at that the illegals don't have access to so guess what jobs the Americans are going to take? But the way things are going that won't be the case in a few years.

    If we insist on letting them in at least make them pay for the services they get. I respect the desire to make a better life for yourself and even more I respect being willing to work hard to get it but I don't beleive in a free ride and a lot of the services given to illegals for free I have to pay for and I don't like that.
  8. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    The Truth be Known...,

    The U.S. doesn't seem to be able to control the illegal immigrant situation due to the systems reliance on people who have respect for and abide by the law. The Invasion of the U.S. is seen as being aided by a government which lacks the courage to legislate harsher laws that would make employing illegals more costly than a business can afford. Offering legal status to those here illegally only fuels the situation and does not fix the problem. I think we need to fix the problem first and then decide what to do with those that are already here.

  9. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    I just joined this forum. I hope not to offend anybody. I am surprized that such devisive topics are allowed but since it seems they are I will offer my 2 cents. I was born in America, I am American, my father and mother were born in Puerto Rico, U.S.A. That makes me multi-generation American. We as a people have fought in every war since the Spanish-American war. My brother was wounded seriously in the Vietnam war during the Tet offensive, 3 weeks after he signed up for his 2 tour of duty. I have experienced a lot of racism in my country but rarely to my face. If you knew how I looked you'd know why. I am not a Bush supporter but do admire that he has been trying to work something out but has been let down by our congress and senate. We MUST protect out borders. We cannnot have a free for all. People coming into out country must understand out heritage and the history behind it. The blood laid down by our countrymen, the civil war fought for the rights that we enjoy must not be cast "like pearls on swine". I understand much better than most non-latinos the problem with hoards of illegals coming in here and not understanding the "American Way". How many times has this happened in out country?...ALL THE TIME. It's a constant. Our way is varied way but if your American "you know it". PLEASE, don't lump us Puerto Ricans with the illegals. We get it from everybody, some whites who resent us for being here, some latinos who hates us because "we should do more". I speak spanish when I want to, I sing spanish when I want to. I sing the anthem in spanish and if you don't like it too bad. I sing it in english as well. I am American and I have the same rights as everyone else. They are my God given rights. I was born here, pay taxes, own my own home. So next time you ( in general) approach a spanish person, bite your tongue, he or she may be Puerto Rican and will set you straight. Thanks. God Bless American and the whole world. (and for God's sake learn a second language, choose one, your choice)
  10. rowiac

    rowiac Member


    I understand your point. Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens and are not the problem. Here in California, Puerto Ricans are relatively few compared to Mexican immigrants. I've also known Spanish speaking people from El Salvador, Argentina, Chile, etc. (all legal immigrants by the way) and understand the difference.

    To Gil's point,

    Amen, brother!

    OK, now back to working on that card model...
  11. rickstef

    rickstef Guest


    As I posted on the last post on the 2nd page of this thread, I am allowing this, because it was posted in the correct thread, the B & G one.

    As an admin I will allow alot, and as most have seen, and experieced, I will hardly step in, or close a thread, I feel that I do not want to limit expression, thought, feelings or anything else.

    I have gotten one reported post from a member, but I hope that this explanation is sufficient as to why I allow this.

    If more people want me to close this thread, let me know, by email or pm.

  12. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    I actually think that even keeled, intelligent people can discuss topics that some sites would be "worried" about allowing. I personally think it is refreshing. I don't think we as a country are as polarized as we are told we are, by "the media" and the ultra "politically correct" type. The international flavor of this forum is what attracted me to it (the international card modeling), allowing the same cosmopolitan opinions of it's members seems natural. thanks
  13. paper warrior

    paper warrior Member

    you are the first person today to make me smile :)
  14. milenio3

    milenio3 Active Member

    As theses are mexican-related posts, me as a Mexican and living a few meters from the Mexico/USA border, I understand the problems illegal immigration is creating in USA. I can blame also both governments, I can blame my relatives for living in the States instead of raising families here in Mexico, heck, I can blame whoever walks by. But that is not the case.

    I love Mexico, and I love the USA (I go there several times a week for a million of reasons), I have relatives there - legal and not -. My daughter was born in the USA because I want to keep a strong relationship with the two countries in the family, as always. We observe the Day of the Death and Thanksgiving. I work for a large IT company in a strong business relationship Mexico/USA. I love the English language, and love to read poems in Spanish. Our culture is very very similar, not historical, but it is in the present times.

    But in our hands (both sides of the border) to live the best we can. Business? Family? Work and wages? Let's work for everybody's wellbeing.

    I'd hate to see a war in the forum because of this. Let's excel ourselves from that.

    EDITED: Oh! And the idea of the wall... it won't solve anything. Think of it as the Berlin wall. Mr. Ronald Reagan (a great president and human being), asked to "tear down this (Berlin) wall", and Europe is a greater place after that. Can't we Mex/USA do the same here?
  15. popala

    popala Member

    In my experience discussions about religion and politics have always been divisive. Too often they escalate and get out of hand before a moderator has a chance to intervene and by the time that happens the community is already divided. Allowing such discussions sets a dangerous precedent - where do you draw the line? Which political topics are ok and which are not? Who decides that and is he a liberal or a conservative? ;) Also please consider how easy it is to offend people when voicing strong opinions about politics and/or religion - especially on a discussion board so international.
  16. ulious

    ulious Member

    Sorry, the wall that President Reagan was talking about was not designed to protect a country, it was designed to repress the citizens living there. But on the other hand the Berlin wall was very effective at that intended purpose and yes you are right, Europe (and the world) are better with it gone.

    I would be happy not to have a wall if people respected the boarders, but as it stands at this time it seems like it is needed. I notice that Mexico doesn't have the same attitude about its southern border.
  17. barry

    barry Active Member

    Maybe we should make a series of models of "walls of the world" we've got Hadrians wall still standing
  18. Vess Irvine

    Vess Irvine New Member

    I have to chuckle when the freepers in a thread like this start off with something like, "i have no probem with LEGAL immigrants, but we are nation of laws ..... yada, yada."

    We also have laws against .... torture.

    I am still waiting for a freeper to say, "i am all for LEGAL torture, but we are a nation of laws ....... so i draw the line at ILLEGAL torture." <sigh>

  19. Zathros

    Zathros Guest

    I had to Google "freepers". I like that. I lead a "tortutred" life, but thats what happens when you get married!! We're all immigrants. My wife says I'm a vagrant.

    @barry, How about "Pink Floyds Wall"?
  20. Gil

    Gil Active Member

    I think it's time to end the thread when name calling and labeling begins. Besides the thread has nothing at all to do with card modeling.

    So Rick this is the second vote to snuff it!

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page