A site with a model developed with free tools

Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by Alcides, Jun 5, 2007.

  1. Alcides

    Alcides Member

    Surfing the net I found this site:


    The page is about the development of a model with free tools. For me was interesting because I doesn't know about Inkscape or a pluging to unfold in blender.

    The sad news is the detailed information are in threads from Kartonbau.de in German :cry:

    But the thread are full of pictures.

  2. Maurice

    Maurice Member

    Meet Wolfgang Holzinger, "Woody" as he is known on Kartonbau
    You can find his membership, and of course his posts at Cardmodels
    He has been known to respond helpfully to questions in English.
  3. Lex

    Lex Dollmaker

    I've never got round to learning Blender... But great thing that everything can be done free ;) --I wonder why the final model isn't free though...
  4. Amazyah

    Amazyah Senior Member

    Well, that is pretty much the designers choice, right?
    Give it away, or sell it, or neither.
    That's a choice for every designer and every model too.

    Yes, I do find it a little strange too on the other hand, so I do see your point.:wink:

  5. 46rob

    46rob Member

    Nezard--So a designers time, effort and ability to use the programs has no value?
    These programs do not 'automatically ' create a model--there's still a lot of choices, decisions about how to separate the shapes, join them, etc that takes lots of that time and effort--nopt to mention the coloring, addition of detail shading weathering and otherwise manipulating the images tocreate a good model. Yes, some designers offer their models as freebies, but many times only as fish food.

    There's an old bit of wsidom, that something is only valued by it's costs, whether in time, money or what have you--hence the way subsidized housing tends to be trashed ("it ain't wortht much anyway") Free models tend to have a low value, and hence a low appreciation for the product and the expectation that all card models should be free. It takes me anywhere from a month to a half year or more, start to finish, on a new project.
    Sometimes I'll put one out in the PARTS BIN...but usually I let FG or DeWayne sell the thing, as it gets much wider exposure that way, I get a bit of cash to spend on paper, ink, programs, etc to continue making the creations. I figure I make around twenty five cents per hour designing models--ain't no one getting rich doing this.
  6. Amazyah

    Amazyah Senior Member

    I don't think that was the meaning of the post.
    Nezard designs too.

    It just seems slightly odd that the entire site is devoted to designing freely by using free programs.
    The whole site is about, "free" but the model is for sale, that seems kind of odd.
    No big deal, just an observation.:wink:

  7. Maurice

    Maurice Member

    Nothing odd about it at all.
    Wolfgang discovered and developed a whole new technique for design and gave it to the community for free.
    Charging a couple of peanuts for his model probably saves him from having to pay for the bandwith that would be used by the Grabble downloading it solely because it's there.
  8. Lex

    Lex Dollmaker

    Oops... Sorry if I caused offence here, Russell had my point. I didn't mean there is anything wrong with such, it is perfectly alright to sell models for money, no matter how it was designed.

    --I'll stop here as I don't want this to turn into another of those "designer vs user" threads. Everyone please continue the discussion on designing with freeware programs.
  9. MOS95B

    MOS95B Member

    Oooooo.... They have a P2 neptune on their site!! (I am not a designer, so the CAD stuff went right over my head!!) My dad flew in Neptunes in the Navy. I need to have my mom sneak me some of their old photos and buy that thing!!!

    On topic, if I could get my head wrapped around designing, it's really cool that it can be done with free software!!
  10. Arjun

    Arjun Member

    Currently I'm using Metaseq and Pepakura to prepare Sukhoi aircraft (Flanker and Su-30MKI) and it's been really tough. However, I found Metaseq very easy to use, in fact, much more user-friendly than Maya, but not very functional- in the free version, UV texturing doesn't exist, nor can you use images as reference, which you can in Maya.

    In fact, I've used hand-drawn, modified blueprints to make my models on Metaseq, and a calculator to mark movements and scalings. When I'm unfolding in Pepakura, as in the free version saving/exporting isn't allowed, I print directly (symbols included) and then stick on the symbols. For camo schemes, I may have to buy a thick marker pen which, hopefully won't run dry and will keep marking in the same shade uniformly- the very same reason why I shifted my modelmaking to the virtual world.

    Ultimately, it's been easy to make the models on the PC with this existing combination, but since I haven't (yet) paid the full amount, the final result isn't very impressive.

    How many out here use this Blender/Mesh-Unfolder/Inkscape/GIMP combination? I'd like a comparison of both combos before shifting to this one. Of course, it doesn't help matters much when I'm building these models to dimensions as large as 8"x6"x4", to find a place in my small suburban apartment, until I start building larger models for professional purposes (in case it comes to that).
  11. Arjun

    Arjun Member

    I've already started 'blending' a Boeing 707 and got one stage ready. Trying to save the view was a problem...I've done a PrtSc and uploaded the screen on the gallery...all the classifications are gone...
  12. w.holzinger

    w.holzinger Guest

    Some explanations, may be?

    Hello everybody,

    sorry that I didn't find this thread sooner ...
    May be some explanations are helpful. I'm working as a card model designer for around 4 years now (beside my real job!), mainly with the cfm publishing house. During this work I found the combination
    - blender (with unfolder and outliner plugin)
    - inkscape
    - gimp
    - openoffice
    very helpful. OK, I have to earn some money to do my living, therefore I can't give away every model for free. Believe me, I would be glad to do so, but sometimes there is no way.

    My primary goal was therefore to show a way where EVERY designer can participate! All stated programs are open-source and free in use for ALL platforms (not only rubbish windoze, but also Mac and Linux). With this tools in mind designers can work together all over the world on any platform the inidividual wants to have. I think that's a good basis, and that's what I wanted to show!

    "The sad news is the detailed information are in threads from Kartonbau.de in German"
    Yes, I know that this is an issue to the international community. The only excuse I have is that it took a lot of time to create the threads and tutorials in German, translating it into English is far beyond my spare time. But if you (or any other) have any questions please feel free to contact me. I'll help if I can.

    As Maurice told you: I wanted to show a way where everybody can do card model designing if he or she wants to learn HOW! Personally I did not much more than to show the way and to help MiZi to do a gui for his outliner plugin. My work was to combine the free tools to a SOLUTION, not more. Ok, and do some tutorials, but that's all. But there are some ideas for blender plugins in the pipeline which I'll give away for free.

    "Oops... Sorry if I caused offence here"
    Don't worry, I had some thoughts like this, too. Your point of view isn't an offence; it's OK!

    "I need to have my mom sneak me some of their old photos and buy that thing!!!"
    If you need any help please contact me. Be warned: The P-2 is a pretty but old model, not todays standard. The original design is from the 60ies, only slightly improved. But the result looks pretty good IMHO.

    There is still one thing I want to say: I know I owe much to the internet community of card modelers; much more than I can give back. But beside the tutorials of "blending" card models I have a freebie on my homepage now available: The "Silverbird" of Eugen Sänger; a project of an aerospace plane form 1944. I hope you'll enjoy it.

    Have a nice day, Wolfgang
  13. Lex

    Lex Dollmaker

    I admit back then I was being a bit over arrogant... But I really like the Blender tutorial, even with translation software it is a great guide to using Blender in cardmodel design, thanks for spending time to write it!
  14. w.holzinger

    w.holzinger Guest

    Hi Lex,

    believe me, there is no need to worry about, OK?

    Well, I had a lot of fun, and the reactions of the community were very good! Now several guy at kartonbau.de are working with blender, and the speed of evolution of methods, tutorials and models if far beyond my wildest expectations. So it was really worth the time and efforts.

    CU, Wolfgang
  15. Arjun

    Arjun Member

    The last two models I've built (or tried to build) are in Blender. I have encountered a few problems, particularly from the Unfold plugin (I use v2.45) and I get odd unfolds, or the mesh doesn't unfold at all! Especially in the union of fuselage and wings of an airliner. What can I do for better control of the unfold? I tried marking seams and it didn't help in some meshes.

    Was any subsurfacing applied to the model in low-poly mode?

    Were there any knife subdivisions used? I've tried that utility, and it is very hard to control.

    Will triangles be a problem during an unfold?

    To add, I'm used to modelling in very small scale, often 1:120, so I'd like to know what to do different. For instance, I use very low-poly (Fuselage cylinder is often in eight to sixteen) and often omit finer details such as the canopy and what's inside it.
  16. Alcides

    Alcides Member

    No problem, we have a saying in spanish: "Mas vale tarde que nunca", My bad attempt to translate it in english: "Better later than never" :thumb:

    Wolfang, you don't need to apoligize. You are bringing a great contribution to the community with your effort. I wrote in a ... ejem melodramatic way.

    Thanks for the tutorials and the freebies. Great work !!!
  17. Arjun

    Arjun Member

    I went through the FW3 tutorial and tried to relate it with the Boeing 707 project of my own, and I noticed/encountered these puzzles-
    • That model was done with a very high poly-count. I am doing mine with a fuselage from a cylinder that's got only 16 sides. Should I increase the poly-count?
    • The scale adopted is 1:120, not quite the giant 1:33.
    • I too would prefer to use an inner frame.
    • For forthcoming models, I would (at 1:120) like to use transparent surfaces for the canopy, and also model the armaments.
    • A few phases in modelling seem to have been repeated, and that leaves me a little confused.
    • Wolfgang mentioned drawing in Inkscape and then importing in GIMP. I'd like to know how I can Inkscape- join vertices, split polygons along a common line. I would like to draw the panel lines and livery limits, then scale and arrange them along the unfolds- like Warp in Photoshop.
    • Then there's my struggle with GIMP- How on earth can I warp effectively in GIMP? That 'curve bend' is one terribly user-hostile tool! Would you recommend colouring in Inkscape before coming to GIMP?
  18. Arjun

    Arjun Member

    And of course, how do I use cross-sections in modelling?
  19. Lex

    Lex Dollmaker

    Arjun, I think increasing the poly count is necessary only in the circular direction, but not in longitudinal direction which you want to unfold your model. (Otherwise it'll unfold into a unbuildable collection of thin strips...)
  20. Trader Sam

    Trader Sam Member

    W.holzinger: On the model, there are dark-gray splotches on the main body of the craft. How do you line them up? Is it simply trial and error? Do you have a trick that you use when you're adding the graphics? Or is there an untapped feature in GIMP or Photoshop that I don't know about? I'm always looking for new/different ways to approach things.

    I think I may have a new way of unfolding models, thanks to you (bye-bye, Pepakura and Flash). In my four years of creating paper models, I'm still learning new things!

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