A flop !!! by Hummer ?

Discussion in 'HO Scale Model Trains' started by hummerdaves, Sep 8, 2005.

  1. hummerdaves

    hummerdaves Member

    Hey guy's and gal's it's me Hummer I did this car for a challenge [​IMG]
    And it flopped I tried real hard to get it right, I did too different side's on one car
    It took just under 3 week's to complete. I had to do all the reserch, weathering
    and decal's. This was also the first time I did any type of rust streak's.
    I need your opinion's of this car be-it good or bad. Near perfection is my current
    goal, so don't hold back.

  2. Gary Pfeil

    Gary Pfeil Active Member

    I think the weathering is very nice, certainly better than I can do, and I'm hesitant to be critical about it. But since you asked I think the most obvious difference between the prototype and your model is the blue is much more faded on the prototype. Man, that is one beat up car!

  3. shaygetz

    shaygetz Active Member

    I've got plenty of room on my layout for as many of your "flops" as you wanna send me...I'll even pick up the postage. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
  4. Ralph

    Ralph Remember...it's for fun!

    Horrible! Disgusting! In other words the model looks as ravaged as the prototype! Nice job! :)
  5. Papa Bear

    Papa Bear Member

    Nice effect. I like those old "ROCK" cars.
  6. Pitchwife

    Pitchwife Dreamer

    To fix that just set it out in the sun for a couple of weeks. :D :D
  7. tillsbury

    tillsbury Member

    Overall I think it's excellent... I'd only criticise if you invited it, which you did... so in the very best of intentions I might say:

    The fading of the logos is superb, no problem there. I'd love to know exactly how you did that, particularly the Q black logo.

    The fading of the paint isn't enough (as already said), although as you will know it's very tricky. Did you paint it pale blue or fade from the original? This is probably the biggest difference between the proto and the model.

    The rust streaks are good, although the 'streaks' are too heavy compared with the 'origins' of each rusty area. (E.g. look at the diagonal rust mark under the 'C' of ROCK on the second side -- the rust streak on the prototype is much lighter than the main rust -- same left of the Q logo)

    The door (in particular) has dirt/rust in the 'grooves' of the door. On the prototype, the rust is either even or possibly is more on the ridges and less in the grooves. Leaving dirt or rust in the grooves is an obvious result of weathering a model, and is often the biggest giveaway. The door dirt is probably the weakest part of the model, if there is one.

    Wrong fonts used in the renumbering. And particularly using different fonts doesn't look right (I mean different from the CNW to the number itself). If they're going to do it on the cheap, they do it on the cheap!

    No end reporting marks...

    On the first photo, the right-hand truck isn't on the track!

    Don't know about the top -- looks good from what we can see though...

    The whole body looks too high and should be lowered -- the trucks shouldn't be that visible (particularly since the model shot is from a higher angle). And that leaves too much truck to be visible, where I don't think there's quite enough texture and detail to the colouring. It looks like the trucks are a bit of an afterthought with dirty black and a stab of only one rust colour on the springs on one side.

    And finally, if you've gone to so much trouble, I'm surprised you didn't install proper grabirons... it would have really jumped the model up. Most pictures we see nowadays with weathering of this quality would have replacement grabirons, whatever scale they were. So this stands out.

    But again, please don't take these as a rant... I'm honestly just trying to point out these things after you specifically asked us not to 'hold back'. I'm used to N-scale, and I don't know whether the HO-scale community expects more in the way of detail and weathering, but I still think it's pretty good either way... better than I manage, anyway!
  8. dsfraser

    dsfraser Member

    He's pointed out the same things I would, and quite succinctly.

    When you go to so much trouble to weather a car, it only makes sense to address the easy and obvious — grabs and fonts and other storebought items, and make sure you have them right. If you have to wait a week for them to arrive, so be it. That's a trifle given the finishing work required. That's my biggest criticism.

    Some things to suggest:

    Dry brushing — I don't see much evidence of it. Learn the technique, and practise it — it's perfect for the doors and ribs.

    Washes — much thinner for the streaks. You can even dab the spots and use pure thinners for your wash, dragging the colour down from the spot. Too little is easier to fix than too much. Go slow, take your time, and stop when you're satisfied.

    Brushes — use teeny weeny brushes for your weathering, 3x0 or 5x0 max. That way takes longer, but you have more control.

    Backfilling — don't be afraid to go back on your weathering with the original colour, not just to fix mistakes, but to enhance the effect. You can also drybrush here.

    Airbrushing — In the second set of pictures you posted, the prototype shows distinct grime/rust between the road name and the reporting marks, as far as the door. Once the main colour coat has been applied, a VERY thin mixture of rust, applied "hot" (i.e. a lacquer/xylene-based paint (Floquil) that is almost dry before it hits the surface) will give that effect.

    Underpainting — sometimes it works better to paint the rust under the main colour coat, and then use an ink eraser to rub off the colour coat to reveal the rust. You can also use a sharp blade to scrape off the colour coat, but the margin for error (going too deep) is slim.

    Pastels — so will pastels! Go to an art supply store and investigate chalk pastels. They are available in a gazillion colours. Rub them on some #200 sandpaper and use a clean brush to dab them where you need them. They're wonderful!

    Faded paint — given a paint chip from the shop, if you match it and mix it and apply it to your model, it will always look too dark. It must be lightened considerably for 1/87 scale. This is called "scale colour". most colours will "cut" with pure white, although red shades must also have yellow added. Generally, for HO scale you will want to add at least 20% white to the stock colour for it to look "right". In this case, given the extreme fading of the prototype, you would probably add as much as 50% white. It's really bleached out, and the colour you have applied is quite intensely blue, and looks more like the car has just left the paint shop. See the black/grey panels under the data stencils? They were black, but have degraded to dark grey. The blue has degraded proportionately, but this hasn't been as well represented.

    Trucks — are almost always rust coloured, including the wheels.

    All that said, it's a good effort, and something to learn from. If you're happy with it, leave it be. If not, you have two choices — fix it or put it behind your rear wheel before you head to work tomorrow. If you gave it to me and said "make it perfect", without repainting the whole thing (which I wouldn't do), I would:

    — carve off the grabs, replace with wire grabs and touch up the paint with the same colour as elsewhere.

    — go over the sides and ends with a fairly heavy white wash to tone down the bright blue.

    — repaint the white blocks where the road numbers are and find better (Helvetica) fonts.

    That's my 2¢. You asked, and there you have it.

    Scott Fraser
    Calgary, Alberta
  9. hummerdaves

    hummerdaves Member

    Thanks for the constructive comments, I will post a few more pictures of the car

    with a good roof shot. The pictures of my model where inhanced at Photoshop and I will post originals. The comments made will intensify my weathering ability,
    And I am very gratefull they where made.[​IMG]
  10. MasonJar

    MasonJar It's not rocket surgery

    One interesting "fading" technique I have "discovered" (along with many others, I am sure) is applying alcohol over Dullcoat. This turns the Dullcoat whitish/milky and "fades" the underlying colour.

  11. Raildog

    Raildog Member

    It's great to see that people actually took the time to tear your car apart, in a good way, and provide very constructive criticism. Just what you were looking for elsewhere.

    Every project you do Dave, gets better and better.

    Thanks Gauge!

  12. hummerdaves

    hummerdaves Member

    tilldbury - Thank You very much. The logo fading was done with a waterbased tube paint
    that was put on in 2 applications,Then to expose the black I took a small brush with water and washed it clean. The fading was done with a thin wash over the original blue.
    The doors where done [maybe to much] with a paste of weathering powders I think I had it closer to the photo but after I put my sealer on it ouch it overblended the mix. The
    decal's came from a RI C&NW FallenFlags set They looked correct ? For one of the cars
    The height of the car ? I don't think it went back together correctly I should have payed more attention to that. Next the grab's thats my fault due to time with the challenge - 90% of my model's have them. The truck up in the air thing, Photgraphing on a windy day don't do it the car was all over the place. And the color a white wash from a airbrush did me in on that.
  13. hummerdaves

    hummerdaves Member

    Scott what a review, I understand what you are saying and will no longer play beat the clock with a project. Thank you very much.
  14. hummerdaves

    hummerdaves Member

    Now that I have learned more I feel more confident, Here are the other photo's

  15. sw900fla

    sw900fla New Member

    The ROCK weathered car

    Hummer , et all,

    The car looks great if you ask me. I realy like what you did with the track, BTW.

    The faded paint might be best achieved by painting it that way rather than trying to weather down the pre-painted car. I would start with the color blue for that Railroad (CNW? blue) . THen in a small bottle I would mix in about 20% (1 part in five) of a pale yellow (desert tan - check out other parts of the hobby shop, armor model colors work very well) with the base blue color and over spray this on the whole car. Then do the same thing in another little jar but use white instead of the yellow. I would spray this on the top and bottoms, then use it to drybrush with.

    I prefer layering the colors this way, I have more control over the color. Sorry for the exact ratios but I am a professional colorist, judging and adjusting shades everyday. It's kinda fun for me.[​IMG]
  16. belg

    belg Member

    Hummer, being no expert at doing this type of work my observation is only what "I" would like to see on a model I did. Besides our more experienced guys have already given you enough things to work on, so here goes I think if you could add some "texture" to your rust It might be a little more believable, I have used a product called rotten stone produced by Rainbow Co. it is a super fine powder which comes in colors and is really used to finish furniture. Very inexpensive but a little hard to find, I found mine at an Ace hardware store and later on found it at a lumber supplier for furniture makers ,go figure. Hope this is the type of input you were looking for, Pat.
  17. urbancowboy

    urbancowboy New Member

    It's interesting what ideas you can get from previous posts. For example I saw this thread and noticed that hummerdaves had a picture of his weathered car on display using an empty toilet paper roll. An empty toilet paper roll would great to use when I start airbrushing my first undecorated rolling freight car. I was going to purchase a similar item from Micromark which would have cost me $14.95US plus shipping. Even an empty paper towel roll would be good to use to hold up my model when I start airbrushing. Of course the item that Micromark sells may make the model much more sturdier for airbrushing. I'll see how the empty paper towel roll idea goes.

    Thanks hummerdaves!
  18. hummerdaves

    hummerdaves Member

    urbancowboy Thanks the paper roll works great if you have to tape it down so it won't fall over it's easy to hold and there always around when you need one.
  19. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab Keep It Moving!

    you coul probably cover the bottom of the toilet paper roll with paper or cellopahne or something, hold it on with a rubber band, and pour change, or old fishtank rocks in there. that would probably hold it.
  20. hummerdaves

    hummerdaves Member


    green elite cab - urbancowboy here is another neat tool I have, It's a lazy-susan bottom with a 2x4 and a 1x4 glued together it makes airbrushing easy all sides can be sprayed without any problems.

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