3D software pluses and minuses

Discussion in 'Gallery & Designs' started by wunwinglow, Sep 6, 2006.

  1. Bravo for trying. Whenver one has to cast off their jargon and explain what they know without, things get tough. I've written a couple articles for non-science types about stuff I"ve done and, as you say, things that seem easy to explain suddenly become difficult.

    Catch-22 here as I don't know what I 'need/want' as at this point I can't get past all the jargon. Unrolling....unfolding....both seem to produce card models. Go figure :)

    Price aside, that's my inclination. Also, my analytical nature seems to be better suited for a Rhino approach rather than a MilkShape approach. I'm just not the artist that the WebDude is.

    Cheers --- Larry
  2. TheWebdude

    TheWebdude Just a Member

    Oh, hey. Not me. My mom's the artist. I'm just blessed with fairly consistent choices of subjects.

    Let's call it luck.:twisted:

    Still, I think you might be trying to get a little deeper into it than need be.
    Download some demos.
    Read some tutorials.
    Just go for it.:grin:
    It's the best way to learn (and possibly produce a model or three along the way!)
  3. keith

    keith Member

    I'm not sure about this but you might be able to use rhino for free if you have a spare computer and the knowledge to partition and reformat.
    Well until you get tired of re-installing.
    Just not sure whether rhino can reload the saved files, that is, whether it puts a number into the save file. Might be the cheap option.

    Webdude - so modest :D
  4. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

    Hi There,

    Follow Keith's idea to re-install Rhino when limitation save of file reach. There is a program call Ghost what can make a copy of entire partition to be as image file. First you just install Windows then install Rhino and run Ghost to save this partition into image file in another partition. work with Rhino...save file into another partion (not same with partition what installed OS eg. OS install in drive C and save your Rhino file in drive D) When you reach limitation...just run Ghost again to restore all OS and program. You will be back into a day what Rhino still not count a save file. process of restore entire partition by Ghost is around 15 minutes. maybe this process will useful to cheat McNeel :)
  5. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Oo, can I disassociate myself from the last couple of posts!!!????

    Tim P (wunwinglow)
  6. Everyone has their own definitions of 'need.' I don't do well when I can't even follow the vocabulary. But...


    Have started doing that.

    Software tutorials will not teach me what I've been asking about but then I guess I've never been successful in asking the questions properly. One does not learn about the workings of a car by driving one.

    Cheers --- Larry
  7. TheWebdude

    TheWebdude Just a Member

    Drive On Larry!

    The problem with vocabulary is it's so program specific. About the only constants are vertex, grid, and x,y,and z axis.

    Once you choose a program I'm sure you'll find plenty of program specific help. If not here then in one or more of the numerous usergroups and or modelling communities online.

    Glad to hear your proceeding apace anyway! The community always needs more designers!

    On a very lighthearted note: I learned to drive by getting in the car and going for it. (It was a 1958 Studebaker TransStar pickup. Big steel tank with a huge V8) One does not need to understand the principles of the internal combustion engine to press the gas pedal.:grin:

    Best wishes and keep us posted on your decisions and progress!
  8. There are always ways to cheat any system. I've come to the conclusion that I'm simply too old to deal with the 'modern world' as I was taught that stealing was stealing, whether it's easy or not. If I decide to use Rhino for my development, I'll buy it. Silly me I guess.

    Cheers --- Larry
  9. Some for sure. But there are lots of things you know and talk about that are general to 3D discussions. I'd like to provide examples but if I could we wouldn't be having this discussion...or we'd both be on the same side talking with some other newbie who is confused by all the terminology. Oh...I know of one. Throughout this site and others people throw around the term NURBS as though it means something to anyone who would read it. It does not. It's an acronym that's part of the 3D jargon set. When I learned that it's a system of using polynomial splines to define surfaces, I suddenly had a better understanding of what's going on as I've even written models that do that sort of thing, albeit only to do crude population density projection maps.

    One thing about the Internet is that we tend to talk ahead of our progress, particularly in a new area. I've known about card modeling for roughly 2 weeks. I'm up to my eyeballs in 'gotta do' projects and I really want to get into designing. But I've got lots to learn about shaping paper and about the software tools. My guess is that it'll take me at least a year to become even moderately saavy in either of those areas.

    You missed my point. You didn't learn how to fix the car by driving it. You didn't learn what the timing belt did by driving it. And so it goes with anything. Gil suggested that a lot of people don't understand the process by which their tools create and that this may/does cause problems. This is the difference between driving and understanding what you're driving and why you're driving a Ford rather than a Chevy :)

    To me, card modeling is cool not because of the end result but because you can gain control of the entire process, from gleam in your eye to final product. It's the design/building stuff that's fascinating to me and this is what's always turned me off from plastics modeling (kit building). In the plastics world, all the cool stuff is already done. All that's left is to debate history and paint it appropriately. There are other things that are great about card modeling but, to me, this is the big deal and so I need to get some design tools and acquire knowledge of them.

    Cheers --- Larry
  10. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Larry, you are that one in a thousand if you understand NURBS at the number crunching level! You DON'T need that level of understanding to use Rhino effectively, but it sure can't do any harm!

    You are absolutely right about the control thing though.You just have to plough through the sequence a few times so you can be confident you understand the process, then just make your projects more complex. Start by making a box. Make sure it is a size you can chexk, that you design it accurately, that you can develop it one way or another, that you can export the developed shape to a paint or illustrator type program, that you can colour it effectively and then print it out; and finally that it folds up to what you expect.

    Points to watch: Is it the right size? Did the line widths export correctly? How much do you need to offset the fold lines to account for your paper thickness? Are you happy with your tab arrangements? Go back and remodel the problems, try again. I know it is a bit boring, but until you have that degree of understanding, more complex structures will just be frustrating.

    Some will say you don't need to test-build. Well, OK, if they say so. I am not that good. I never will be that good. I'd rather catch a glitch as I make it than after 6 months of effort elsewhere.

    Just pitch in and make something! You will make mistakes, but problems are only opportunities to learn in disguise!

    Tim P (wunwinglow)
  11. Understand is a big word, Tim. What I've done was crude by comparison to what's going on Rhino as two of my axes were geography. Heck, I'm just thrilled that I now have some clue what NURBS means when you guys talk about it :)

    You think like I do. Baby steps are us. The only difference is that I drew an orthographic drawing of a box with a short cylinder on one side just to give me some assymetry. I want to use your tutorial to learn how to use this as background/start in Rhino. Then I'll do exactly what you suggest for the rest of the exercise.

    Mistakes?? Me?? Oh yeah...you're right :)

    Thanks again for that tutorial. It's a shame that it's been lost from this site as the dialog you had with people as you were developing it (which is still here) is interesting.

    Cheers --- Larry
  12. keith

    keith Member

    Larry, it's not stealing...it's an extended test drive.
    It's alot of money to pay out to do something you could do differently on cheaper or free software, you buy it when your 'production' rate becomes such that reinstalling slows you down and you really want to support the product because you use it so much.
    Another option might be buying on an education licence, i think it's around $300.

    A good place to start modelling might be to re-create brickboy in 3D or a simple box plane with all the right parts, and for the surface modelling, maybe an apple or even better an egg(surprisingly tricky eggs!!)

    Tim - I never meant to suggest using it free, for ever, just until you use it enough to consider the cost of purchasing it...."i'll get my coat".
  13. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

    Keith, Ha, right on my funny bone!!

    'This week, I av mostly bin eatin taramasalatta.....'

    ' Yoo ain't seen me, roit?!'

    And Ralph and Ted, especially the sketch where Ralph doesn't say anything, while Ted gets on mending the fence, absolutely priceless!!

    I'll dig out my tutorial html file and see if I can't reload it onto this site. But what I ought to do is actually finish it, and the model!

    Don't hold your breath....

    Tim P (wunwinglow, King Procrastinator)
  14. I can't help you finish it but I have the existing tutorial in PDF form. You say the word and I'll pop it into a msg here.

    Cheers --- Larry

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