Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Gearz, Feb 18, 2008.

  1. Millenniumfalsehood

    Millenniumfalsehood Active Member

    I personally would keep it white, or off-white so that if the modeler wishes it he can print it on blueish paper.
  2. Gearz

    Gearz Member

    mmmm.. astute observations and interesting insight gents.. Yep good point, staying in spirit with the 'feel' of the vessel will be the order of battle.. * I'd always dreamed of a model making job for film, in hind sight it sounds like it would probably be heart attack material ( for a chronic diddler like me)

    Good thinking MF, stays in spirit with the design and offers options..! Yep I like it... = sorted!

    Minor progress.. Although hard to discern from the previous shots, I've tweaked the refinery's platform in thickness and added a 3 degree slope to the forward peninsulas. The Nostromo was scaled down 8 ~ 10 % to match the changes... much happier with it, certainly enough to test build the base without wasting a boatload of paper N cardboard ..


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  3. Hot4Darmat

    Hot4Darmat Member

    LOL. Nice space background render! I can see it already.

    I almost cursed you aloud yesterday Gearz, I spent almost half the day exploring Bower's site (again), when I had an absolute refinery-load of work that I had to do...

    His work and artistry are absolutely amazing. I can sit and stare at photos of his models 'til the cows come home. I think I like the Gothic tower refinery version look better than the final shooting version, but I can understand why the director knocked all that stuff off. It was likely too busy and fiddly for the blue screen shooting technology of the day...it would've looked wrong in the final screen version is my guess. They likely needed cleaner lines. Even so, the detail in all the different scale versions is mind boggling, especially given how little screen time it actually gets.

    Go for whatever texturing you feel works best.

    "In space, no one can see your detailed texturing efforts"
  4. Nexus9

    Nexus9 Member

    Wow! Gearz, this is looking fantastic. Every time I see you guys begin work on some humungous model, I think; well that's just got to be the last huge build I'll see. But, just like a James Bond movie, you keep ramping it higher. What's next, the ring-station that circles the moon in Starship Troopers? Great work.
  5. Hot4Darmat

    Hot4Darmat Member

    Just an interesting little tidbit of trivia to add. In the novelization by Alan Dean Foster of O'Bannon and Shusett's screenplay, the Nostromo's registry number is 180246 (see page 22 of the paperback by Warner Books published in 1979). It also described the refinery as being an oil refinery, bringing a load of soon-to-be-refined petrochemicals back to Earth.
  6. Gearz

    Gearz Member

    Hahaha.. Curse away Duncan.. Its the Wild Tangent Willies.. I've lost count of the times something shiny has side tracked me ( Even with my socks off..!) Viewing and RE-RE-viewing Martin's work is good enough excuse to put anything off. 180246 eh.. no wonder fans/modellers go crazy filling in the gaps and explaining away inconsistencies.

    Thanks Nexus9. I'm kind of thinking that I've bitten off more than I can chew. The only drawback to mega models is that the number of builders gets proportionally smaller with the increase of size. I'd say only a handful of these buggers will ever be built ~ if that..

    Progress.. I've nutted out the basics for the refinery's base platform. I'd had in mind to laminate two sheets of cardboard, for each 'plate' although I'd say with a sheet of card glued to each side ( the templates) is going to be more than adequate.

    prelim3anim there's 8 parts to one plate template..

    prelim3 Eeeek.. 8 sheets x 2 x 2 !! 32 sheets just for the templates alone. * Its going to be an expensive model to build...

    Prelim3pop.. Hick-up.. each layer + level will need positioning marks on the textures for the, extra levels / domes/ towers etc.. Since its ( will be) a single texture spanning the entire template ( 8 sheets.) I'll have to populate the platform with the additional levels ++ before making the texture. ~ a lot more 3D work before test building. ( this image looks weird ~ I hate working upside down, so I've selected that section and used META's mirror 'Y' function. Once its done, I'll just mirror it back to its correct position.. )

    prelim3detail.. Just thinking ahead on possible construction. Considering the size and probable length of time a model like this will be parked on the bench ( or under it) anything to make the builders job easier would be helpful, so I'll include extra detail templates/panels/plates so that some of the detail work can be done in bite size sections, and separately..

    Ok enough prelim work to get it under way. Pics to come as it happens.

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  7. ajmadison

    ajmadison Member

    This was a semi-widely known element of the movie. It was in the Graphic Novelization and in a widely dispersed synopsis provided by the studio back in '79. The Nostromo's published mission was to haul the fully loaded refinery back to earth, and during its trip there, the fully automated refinery would process the crude into whatever end-product was desired when it arrived at earth, presumably 87-93 octane.

    Come to think of it, I don't know if anyone has analyzed the numbers to see if this makes sense. How much a typical (or estimated by the FX shots) refinery masses out, how much space in that refinery is original crude, how much space & mass the final product takes up, and would this make ANY kind of economic sense. E.g. would interstellar 87 octane be less expensive than devoting 'Africa' to nuclear reactors and lots and lots of power lines.
  8. Gearz

    Gearz Member

    Yes.. its hard not to speculate, sadly it does opens up a can of 'very ugly' worms.

    The visual impact and the whole 'Way Kewl' factor of the hardware aside, I'd guess you'd have to accept much of it with a grain a salt, and put it down to 'Hollywood / Film Physics". Even ruling cost effectiveness out, speculation on 'en-route' refining would quickly draw away from anything to do with the refinery's design and supposed purpose. The engineering aspects alone of refining petro chemicals ( liquids) in zero G + Zero temp, would be a nightmare. Certainly vertical cracking towers would be pretty much useless in zero G. Probably something like the Babylon 5 Station would be a more realistic design for the purpose ~ Artificial gravity through Centrifugal force. ...

    You'd also have to consider ~ They FLT drive..? would they even use something as inefficient as IC (Internal Combustion) engines. I'm sure we will eventually have some sort of space borne processing activities. However, Its kind of freaky considering its all to real, but to twist Ripley's statement slightly * Octane* ~ You can just kiss that all good bye..!

    Personally I'm more than happy to forgo real world physics and probable economics, in favour of entertainment. I think Alien would have to be one of the VERY few movie's that I didn't nit pick. ( Well.. During the first 25 viewings anyway :mrgreen:)

  9. Nosports

    Nosports Member


    so i am definitely looking foward to this. I often thought about doing this, but only in smaller around 40cm.
    But this will bi huge, but very well, i hope someday i have the space for it :)

    I have an suggestion for the internal backbones, stiffeners and so on....
    If you provide a dimensional-drawing of the backbone anyone can look out for corrugated-card or even an woodenplate (it just not prozessed paper) to cut out to fit in. This will also relieve you of drawing the boxes (as i see in the pics)
    No need here to get very deep, just the needed dimensions to cut out and the needed thickness.
    you can provide this also for recesses and so on.

    If i need some thicker card, corrugated-card i often look to our IT-department, because they often have boxes, in which the thingies they need are deliverd, which they have no further use. Also a good location to grab some are supermarked and for bigger boxes furniture-stores.

    And a thought about the prozessing in space. I always thing this is only the plant with some small stock.

    So just a suggestion: Build this like in the movie and then (later?) make some additional parts to get the whole model more logical as massive prozessing plant.

    So i see two possibilties.
    First is to add a storage part which fits into the back recess like the nostromo. But this think should be very huge an bulky, and have a lot of possibilities.
    Secound is to add some additonal parts to highen the Domes, presuming this are the tanks/storage.
    (if you wish, i can make some quick drawings to make it better clear.

    I hope i hadn't overstepped my authorities.....
  10. ajmadison

    ajmadison Member

    Alas, I wish I could say the same. I thought the movie was very original until the Captain, arghh, the Captain! commits the number one script writing sin in horror movies. He crawls into a tight enclosed space which is a known hide out of the movie's premise, without escort, armed or not! The movie lost me at this point. And was only made happy when Ripley dispatches the monster using a method that I should have seen 45 minutes earlier. I'd be happier if it was Ash's idea to have Dallas commit suicide, I mean go after the monster alone, but I don't remember anything in the dialogue to this effect.
  11. CJTK1701

    CJTK1701 Banned

    I loved the movie, but I don't know which one was more scary? I was 17 and on a blind date, suffice to say that it was my last date with that....erm....uh....woman.
  12. Gearz

    Gearz Member

    Thanks nosports! Overstepped ? certainly not, any ideas are welcome, and your suggestion is a good one. Its probably what quite a few builders will probably do anyway ( create their own internal bracing ) although I won't be recommending it, as the refinery's base will need to be robust, and I'm fairly certain the boxes + white glue will provide that. Also, I have to offer some type of bracing with the model for ppl that won't have access to juicy materials. The Box bracing was easy to develop and should prove easy to position. ( a test build will have to confirm all of that of course) Thank you for the offer. Your idea of building additional refinery hardware is very interesting, it opens up all sorts of possibilities, and raises some interesting questions. * How did they transfer the refined cargo from orbit to the surface.? * What would a orbital transfer vessel look like etc etc

    Yeeah to true, ajmadison. Unfortunately its all to common in the genre ~ *Captain leaves ship for risky away mission, or some similar retarded S.O.P. Sadly you don't have to look to hard at most SF flicks to find holes you could drive a truck through. I normally turn a blind to most of them If the story is entertaining enough.. A suicidal Dallas may have been bad, but the one that really rained on my parade in the Alien's saga, was when the Colonial Marines went down to LV426 and left the Sulaco in orbit... UNMANNED..!!! *Sigh* Oh well...

    OT. For those of you that frequently say 'HEY.. WAIT A MINUTE!" while watching a movie, this site will be right up your ally.. ( I love it :mrgreen:)


    CJTK. .wow.. Taking a first date to see Alien ! You may have never seen her again, but I'd bet she'll never forget that date!


    Dome1 + 2.. I did a quick and 'very' dirty test build for one of the main domes. I don't have enough experience to know if this style is use on other models..? Its a little fiddly with the alignment of the petals to start off, and the bottom edges ends up a little rough. On the up side they look more ummm.... Dome -ish, than the standard ring type of dome.. well IMHO anyway. The card I used was to thick, so with better texturing and thinner card they should build up ~ goodly ~

    TEXtest (re-scaled) A small section of test texture for the refinery's platform sides. I'm still mining for nose gold over that aspect of it. I'd like to re-produce something that looks refinery -ish, but I don't want to lock builders into detail placement, by making them to defined.

    Another thought on the construction. I'll do my best to provide most of the detail, however, I'd say builders may wish to use.. errr... 'alternate materials' for some of the smaller domes ++ , so I'm still debating whether to go to the effort of developing stuff may be discarded. I guess Its a decision to be made WAY further on anyway.

    Oh maan.. what am I doing wrong with these attachments. I load them in the order I'd like them to appear, but they just pop up in different order.???

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  13. Nosports

    Nosports Member

    no problem, i have a fast awkward technical phantasie :-(
    I could shell out about 5 model-concepts a day - duh i need additional 96h to the not so much 24h :-0

    The problem of hauling the products from orbit onto the surface ist just a common problem, wether the 140286 alone or with a bulk-carrier. Just a matter of scale.

    If i let my mind wander around, i would think, that a shuttle is possible which can load on big tank onto, and fly it down.
    The Shuttle would consist only of a small cockpit and a large heatsheald covering the now underside of the tank. No engines on the shuttle expect small ones for manövering. I think about a modified Spaceshuttle. This would be my thought if the unloading-locations is in orbit a planet or moon, so you only need a small tug.
    If the unloading is more gerneral a starsystem you will need more of a truck to take over the load and move it to the planet.
    In mind of a more modular maybe a Narcissius-derivate with a an large heatsheald, less crew and the then free space converted to livinquarters.

    Thinking of scale....
    If mankind takes such an enormous effort to gather just fuel, so this means its very very expensive the days and then the hauling-prozess needs a very very big scale to justify the effort. So i think a single load of the 140286 plus the bulk will have to cover at least 1 year nowadays usage, that would be around 13.000.000m3. Thinking of the travel-time alone. I mean the turnaround is about 47 years for the 140286 if i remember right ?

    So if i say the tanks have a diameter of 50m -> y.... boy these would be a huge model.....

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  14. CJTK1701

    CJTK1701 Banned

    I just bought Aliens the Directors cut (Special Edition) last night and there were several references to this ship in the extras. I looked for Alien, but it wasn't available, I'll have to get it elsewhere.

    I'm really looking forward to this and love watching it come together. Now I've got to set up one of my computers to use Power DVD again, so I can take screencaps. Whoot.

    As for the first date. I'm very glad it was the last time I saw her. My Sister set the date up and her friend was....Not beautiful, inside, or out. LOL
  15. Gearz

    Gearz Member

    Hi Nosport, Woow I like your drawings! ~ I wish I could flesh out my ideas to paper that quickly, unfortunately I'd didn't progress much past stick figures. Interesting thoughts on the cargo transfer, possible methods + vehicles. Do you do any 3D modeling as well as drawing Nosport? You could translate some of you ideas to paper models, and it would be fun to add a little extra to the model.. maybe a system tanker .. They'd have to move cargo to colonies as well as the surface. Thanks for the ideas and keep them coming !

    CJTK ~ lol.. Beauty may only be skin deep, but Ugly goes right to the bone ! BEWARE when match makers say '" I know someone that's perfect for you!" = RUN !

    Update ~ TIP for budding designers.. If after working on texturing a 3D model for an hour, and you separate a small section of it to a individual file for convenience. DON'T get into an argument with your kids!.. or you'll probably save to the wrong file name and loose a bunch of hard work.. * Sigh* Up date ~ Tomorrow-ish.. :curse:
  16. Hot4Darmat

    Hot4Darmat Member

    Hey Gearz, I just took a closer look at that piping texture in post #52...its excellent. Did you make that from scratch yourself? Nice work! If not, where'd you find it. I need some good pipe work details to slap onto my shuttle, and am dreading doing it all from scratch.
  17. Gearz

    Gearz Member

    I'm compiling them from a bunch of smaller game textures.. the pipes?.. ~ Baaaad Karma ~ Of all the junk I've collected over the ages, I didn't have one good pic of pipes. You can DL the ones I finally found+used, on these two pages HERE and HERE

    * Take the time to scope out the rest of his textures + work ~ It'll blow you away!
    ( Oh to be an artist *Sigh*)
  18. Hot4Darmat

    Hot4Darmat Member

    You were right. The artwork at that site blew me away. Amazing stuff.
  19. CJTK1701

    CJTK1701 Banned

    Looking great GEARZ, love the site BTW.
  20. Gearz

    Gearz Member

    Thanks CJTK :mrgreen:

    progress (less).. I'm busting my britches to start test building, but the refinery's textures are just not doing it for me. . The problem of locking builders into fixed detail just won't go away + I've blown enough time on them for the time being, so the textures + refinery is side lined for the moment until I can attack it from the other flank. To smooth ruffled feathers, I've move across to the pulling bit. There's going to be several problems here as well ~ Oh JOY! Developing a 4" + - Nostromo is going to be just as tricky as BIG version, some of the parts will very likely have to printed on standard paper, even as large as the model will be, most of the Nostromo's parts are going to be mighty small.

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