cnr heavy weights

[cn nutbar]

hello all---in a recent thread (motive power before the u-boats),triplex had inquired whether the cn northerns were the heaviest steam locomotives on the cn roster---a great question that sparked my curiosity and after a bit of research,i thought i found the answer---the heaviest locomotives are still the 4100 series t-2-a 2-10-2's,however i was wrong regarding the s-4-b mikes being the second heaviest ---i was browsing through a book entitled "the northerns" by jack w. farrell and found that the u-2-e northerns(#6165-6179) at 402,700 lbs. engine weight were second and the u-2-h northerns(#6235-6264) at 400,300 lbs.engine weight came in third
although light compared to their american counterparts,the northerns were very capable of hauling heavyweight passenger consists and 80 car freights with ease
here's a shot of slim u-2-c #6153 weighing in at 383,000 lbs

 

[MasonJar]

Nice as always!

Andrew

 

[bigsteel]

beautiful engine nutbar,are all your engines brass or do you superdetail plastic ones? cause there amazing.and your info is very insightful,but what was the standard american weight of 4-8-4's cause you said there small compared to the U.S.--josh

 

[cn nutbar]

thanks andrew and josh---for a weigh comparison,i referred to jack farrell's book "the northerns"---the heaviest northerns appear to be western marylands j-1's(#1401-1412) at a whopping 506,500 lbs engine weight
chicago and north western h-class (#3001-3035) and EG&E warrior class #506(see photo) weighed in at 498,000 lbs
and for deano,the union pacific's fef-3(#835-844) weighed 483.000 lbs
---so you can see,cn's northerns were these big boys little brothers,as a matter of fact,it appears most u.s northerns were well in the 400,000 plus weight class---
josh,most of my steam engines are brass which have been customed painted/weathered by doctor wayne---however i do have some locomotives that wayne has used his creative skills to convert an athearn genesis mike and a p2k 0-8-0 into real beauties ---judge for yourself---thanks again for your feedback

 

[bigsteel]

thanks andrew and josh---for a weigh comparison,i referred to jack farrell's book "the northerns"---the heaviest northerns appear to be western marylands j-1's(#1401-1412) at a whopping 506,500 lbs engine weight
chicago and north western h-class (#3001-3035) and EG&E warrior class #506(see photo) weighed in at 498,000 lbs
and for deano,the union pacific's fef-3(#835-844) weighed 483.000 lbs
---so you can see,cn's northerns were these big boys little brothers,as a matter of fact,it appears most u.s northerns were well in the 400,000 plus weight class---
josh,most of my steam engines are brass which have been customed painted/weathered by doctor wayne---however i do have some locomotives that wayne has used his creative skills to convert an athearn genesis mike and a p2k 0-8-0 into real beauties ---judge for yourself---thanks again for your feedback

B-E-A utiful engines nutbar! the doc did a great job (as if i were to expect anything less :mrgreen.and all mostly brass!!! how do you feed yourself! sign1.and thanks for the info on the northerns.i guess its true that everythings bigger in America --josh

 

[Triplex]

I've heard that CN used Northerns while CP used Hudsons because CN's track was poorer quality. I know CN always had lots of lightly laid branches and an unusual amount of low-axle-load power to handle them, but it seems their mainline engines also weren't as large.

 

[doctorwayne]

Well! I never!!! I was expecting to see passenger cars of some sort!

The CNR used their Northerns as true dual-service power, and they were often used on what could be considered branchlines in the U.S. Check out almost any of Ian Wilson's fine books on the CNR in the '50s in southern Ontario for examples of this. Their light axle-loadings and relatively compact size made them very versatile. Of course, neither the CNR or CPR were too hung-up on designating any loco as strictly "freight" or "passenger", and there are lots of photos of Hudsons and Pacifics on freights, and Consolidations or Mikes on varnish. This makes for some great modelling opportunities, as you can justify almost any loco that you like appearing on your layout.

Wayne

 

[Triplex]

I thought some of CP's last Pacifics were specifically freight power?

It is surprising how weak the distinction between freight and passenger wheel arrangements was. I'd always known Northerns and Mountains were dual-service, but I find that classification is far wider. There were several cases of freight Pacifics and passenger Mikados. A shortline called the Mississippi Central had both. Even in the case of the Hudson, normally passenger-only, there were some dedicated freight Hudsons (on the IC). Likewise, CP had the only passenger 2-10-4s - and streamlined, no less! But what really surprises me is the dual-service nature of some large articulateds. I had heard that UP Challengers were the only large articulateds ever built for passenger service. It seems that many, including DM&IR Yellowstones, SP Cab-Forwards and C&O Alleghenies, often found passenger use.

 

[MasonJar]

I think that some of the later applications of Pacifics to freight were through default, not original design. Ian Wilson's excellent series of books on CNR steam in 1950s Ontario show numerous Pacifics on freight and passenger duty on branchlines throughout the southern part of the province.

But my understanding of the Pacific wheel arrangement, when first introduced in the early 1920s, was that it was a state-of-the-art passenger engine. 4-wheel pilot truck, large diameter drivers, and so on. It was only relegated to other duties when better passenger power came along (which was almost immediately... hamr). Even in the 1950s, most of CNR's Pacifics would only have been about 30-35 years old when slated for the torch...

Andrew

 

[spitfire]

I think that by the 50s things had changed somewhat, and towards the end of the steam era, a lot of former passenger engines were pulling freight.

Those are some beautiful engines Nutbar and Wayne!!

BTW, I heard that True Line Trains are releasing a series of Northers, some with smoke deflectors and some without. They will be fully DCC and sound, but it seems the originally rumoured price of $600 - 800 is not to be, at least according to one of the guys at my LHS. He says based on their price, it's more likely to be in the range of $1200. Compare that to a Division Point brass Norther at $1700, although lacking sound or DCC.

Val

 

[Triplex]

I know that a lot of engines were delegated to not-originally-intended jobs. I'm referring to some Pacifics made for CP after WWII that were used in freight service from the start.

 

[UP SD40-2]

For the life of me, i don't know how i have missed this threadops: , but its FANTASTIC!:thumb::thumb::thumb: i TOTALLY get into all the facts on engines:winki: , THANKS FOLKS!, for posting them:thumb::mrgreen: . BTW, though ALL the engines posted so far look absolutely STUPENDOUS:thumb: , #506 wins the prize in MY book:winki::mrgreen: .
:deano: -Deano

 

[cn nutbar]

thanks for all the great feedback everyone---your comments have really made this thread interesting and insightful for me---you have provided a lot of excellent information---sorry i can't provide any pictures of other railroads but i can add a few more cn photos,i also had to add another shot of EG&E #506 for deano---as it turns out,506 is the heaviest steamer on my roster---thanks again,nutbar

 

[MasonJar]

I know that a lot of engines were delegated to not-originally-intended jobs. I'm referring to some Pacifics made for CP after WWII that were used in freight service from the start.

Triplex,

Sorry - I missed that distinction in your first post. Were CPR's Pacifics built with freight specific features, like smaller drivers or anything along those lines? According to CNR's experience with them, even ones originally in passenger service adapted quite well to branchline service, where their lighter weight (at least "light" Pacifics), and somewhat smaller size (compared to some other designs at the time) was an asset.

Andrew

 

[Triplex]

Okay, let's find where I heard of them.... http://www.railarchive.net/rlsteam/cpr.html The G5 class. 70" drivers - sounds a little big for a purpose-built freight engine. I also find it odd that they have tapered boilers; late steam generally didn't. OCSTEAM.com - Home of the Ohio Central Steam Department This G5 is used in passenger excursion service; then again, many excusion engines were originally built for freight.

 

[doctorwayne]

Your first link doesn't work, Triplex, but those are some really nice (and informative) pictures on the Ohio Central site. Thanks for posting them. :thumb::thumb:

Wayne

 

[cn nutbar]

freight or passenger ---whatever :thumb:---here's some typical branchline locomotives used by the cnr---the E class moguls and H class 10 wheelers were used in both types of service and were frequently double -headed when hauling heavier trains---here's a few photos of typical branchline power

 

[MasonJar]

Nice!

Love those small steamers on the branch lines...! :thumb:

Who makes the water column?

Andrew

 

[steamhead]

Fantastically gorgeous engines...!!!! When I grow up I want one of those..!!!

I'm with the Dr....I expected to see miles and miles of "Heavyweight" passenger cars.....

 

[UP SD40-2]

nutbar:wav: , the detail on ALL your engines is AMAZING!!!:thumb::thumb::thumb: . you TRULY have some FANTASTIC engines:winki::mrgreen: .
:deano: -Deano