Restored Challenger

[Mountain Man]

Well...I saw it! Yesterday, to a mighty blast of the unmistakable sounds of a steam whistle instead of the bleat of an air horn, the rewstored Challenger thundered past us at the Palmer Lake crossing en route to the Pueblo State Fair.

What a sight! Sadly, it may not be seen again.

 

[N Gauger]

... and you have pictures... uhh right????

You Did take pictures... didn't you????

Oh man - I have a bad feeling about this........

 

[eightyeightfan1]

Me too Mikey...
Must've been one of those" By the time I got to the car to get the camera...It was gone"...Kinda thing.
How many times has that happened to any of us.

 

[N Gauger]

Me too Mikey...
Must've been one of those" By the time I got to the car to get the camera...It was gone"...Kinda thing.
How many times has that happened to any of us.

Ohh You're a member of "that" club too????? I'm overrrr herrrrreeee....and the camera's WAY OVER TherrrrrrrrrrE!!!!!! wall1wall1wall1wall1wall1

Yup - Been There - Done that - - Got the T-shirt!!!!

 

[nkp174]

Ah, that's why some people will pay huge $$$$ to have "period" photo shoots in which actors are hired in period clothing and old cars are rented in order to stage a vintage steam performance. It sounds kind of cool, but not worth it to me...unless it happens to be either the Eureka & Palisades #4, DSP&P (DL&G) 191, or the John Bull...then it would be cool...especially the period horses instead of cars ;-)

 

[sumpter250]

Must've been one of those" By the time I got to the car to get the camera...It was gone"...Kinda thing.

If we're talking a UP challenger, 3985, I shot it with a manual advance SLR. I got an approach shot, a broadside, and a departure shot, and that was going as fast as I could............which was considerably slower than the challenger was going! Sort of...'s-coming-'s-here-'s-gone! or perhaps just wwhooshhh !!!! The exhaust sound of the four cylinders was not a "chuff" it was a roar.

 

[bigsteel]

man,i wish we had big power runnin in the midwest! we can only look at huge power.but there very close to being running again...

The exhaust sound of the four cylinders was not a "chuff" it was a roar.

i heard a 2-6-6-6 when i was a boy,and your correct,there is no "chuff" anymore.its a solid roar of horsepower! totally freakin awesome! sadly it was going to the scrap,not pullin a freight...:cry:--josh

 

[Cannonball]

Ah, crud!
I think that was supposed to come through KC and I may have missed it!

 

[sumpter250]

i heard a 2-6-6-6 when i was a boy

Regardless of where, or why it was going, if you heard it, you have a memory that I will never have........unless I win one of the biggest lotteries, and can then afford to restore one of the two remaining H-8s.
Oh how I would love to couple an H8, and a Class A back to back, and see which one would drag the other away, wheels slipping through the sand, the air filled with the sound of articulated steam power, and scented with coal smoke and steam!!!

 

[nkp174]

Oh how I would love to couple an H8, and a Class A back to back, and see which one would drag the other away, wheels slipping through the sand, the air filled with the sound of articulated steam power, and scented with coal smoke and steam!!!

While sadly I don't think I'll ever see it either...I can tell you the result:
The 2-6-6-6 would practically rip the 2-6-6-4 off the track. And here is why: The Class A's had a terrible factor of adhesion while the 2-6-6-6s were fine. Both were awesome steam locomotives with distinct advantages in specific areas...the Class A's were slippery...in order to try to help this, a limited cutoff modification was performed on them but they still were slick. On the other hand, a Class A would be a much smarter engine to restore as it can drag huge trains through places the 2-6-6-6s could never go.

If only the Claytor brothers had lived longer...we'd still have the 1218 and 611 under steam then :cry:

 

[bigsteel]

Regardless of where, or why it was going, if you heard it, you have a memory that I will never have........unless I win one of the biggest lotteries, and can then afford to restore one of the two remaining H-8s.
Oh how I would love to couple an H8, and a Class A back to back, and see which one would drag the other away, wheels slipping through the sand, the air filled with the sound of articulated steam power, and scented with coal smoke and steam!!!

i didn't think about it like that sumpter,i guess I'm kinda lucky to have heard it at all! and that would be one hell of a show ya thought up there! it sounds like you day dreamed about this for some time...:mrgreen: --josh

 

[bigsteel]

While sadly I don't think I'll ever see it either...I can tell you the result:
The 2-6-6-6 would practically rip the 2-6-6-4 off the track. And here is why: The Class A's had a terrible factor of adhesion while the 2-6-6-6s were fine. Both were awesome steam locomotives with distinct advantages in specific areas...the Class A's were slippery...in order to try to help this, a limited cutoff modification was performed on them but they still were slick. On the other hand, a Class A would be a much smarter engine to restore as it can drag huge trains through places the 2-6-6-6s could never go.

If only the Claytor brothers had lived longer...we'd still have the 1218 and 611 under steam then :cry:

ill support my C&O and agree with nkp174 on this one,the alleghany would destroy the class A If the couplers didnt break :mrgreen:.but either way,id restore'em both :twisted: --josh

oh and another match,there both similar: pulling long drags,on tight branches and BIG.and H-6 verses a Class A...who will win,only you can decide!

 

[nkp174]

If the couplers didnt break :mrgreen:.

Yep, that could happen!

I see you are a fellow Cincinnatian! I love the picture of the C&O 490 parked at Union Terminal...while it was still an F-19 pacific. The Cincinnati RR Club has a print of it in their library.

 

[bigsteel]

Yep, that could happen!

I see you are a fellow Cincinnatian! I love the picture of the C&O 490 parked at Union Terminal...while it was still an F-19 pacific. The Cincinnati RR Club has a print of it in their library.

i just noticed your a cincinnatian too! i too have seen the print in the RR club but my favorite is a print i have of C&O's steam turbine electric.its similar to my avatar.--josh

 

[sumpter250]

oh and another match,there both similar: pulling long drags,on tight branches and BIG.and H-6 verses a Class A...who will win,only you can decide!

Class A 2-6-6-4; weight,573,000 pounds; Tractive effort, 114,000 pounds; Driver dia. 70", stroke, 30".
H-6 2-6-6-2 weight,449,000 pounds; Tractive effort, 77,900 pounds; Driver dia. 56", stroke, 32".
The greater weight, and tractive effort (even though "slippery"), of the Class A, would appear to give the "A" the advantage over the H-6
Allegheny,H-8 2-6-6-6 weight, 753,000 pounds (Virginian version) 778.000 pounds (# 1600-1644), 751,000 pounds (#1645-1659); Tractive effort (with 67" drivers) 110,200 pounds; stroke 33". Here, the reported sipperyness of the "A" would most likely make the H-8 the winner.

the alleghany would destroy the class A If the couplers didnt break

Think about this for a minute.....couplers break? Yes, it could happen, one chance in infinity, is "possible", but even with sand, a locomotive generally will slip before the coupler breaks. That's what double heading is for...to haul a train too heavy for one loco to pull. If drawbar pull becomes an issue, helper service runs mid train, or pushing from the back end.

it sounds like you day dreamed about this for some time...

Actually, Josh, yes I have. The Allegheny is a good looking, massively powerful, and heavy locomotive. Weights given, by the way, are loco weight, and do not include tender. On that note, the "BigBoy" was 772,000 pounds, and had a tractive effort of 135,375 pounds...two extra sets of drivers to distribute pulling weight on does make a difference.

 

[nkp174]

Sumpter, you obviously have a thing for cool articulateds...whether 3' gauge 2-6-6-2s or the really big stuff.

Weight on drivers is the key. The other thing that makes a big difference in comparing the 2-6-6-6s to anything is that the published values for the 2-6-6-6s' weights are too low. One of the greatest mysteries is how heavy they actually were. They were grossly overweight so Lima fudged the scale house measurements...it is quite reasonable to presume that they were actually the largest engines ever...we'll just never know until someone weighs one of them. The one thing for certain is the UP Big Boys don't come close to measuring up for power...either in Tractive effort to numerous other articulateds or in horsepower (which the 2-6-6-6s run away with). The DM&IR M-4s beat the Big Boys in both categories.

But there is another caveat to the tug-of-war...the driver size and cylinder stroke. No locomotive has an even HP or TE at all speeds...they vary by speed. I don't know how a engines with the same Factor of Adhesion would compare in terms of starting horsepower. The coolest thing about the Alleghenies is that their peak horsepower occurs at a higher speed than other articulateds. This doesn't really help in the Tug of War...as we care about starting horsepower.

If we wanted to compare the 3985 to anything (since that's the thread), we'd use 2-10-4s. The C&O T-1s certainly make a nice comparison. Steamlocomotives.com doesn't mention their bosters, but I recall that they had them in the Lima Book...which gave them a high TE with booster, The same size of drivers, a very comparable Factor of Adhesion. Both were very handsome engines. I don't remember their peak horsepower or any other details.

 

[Triplex]

The coolest thing about the Alleghenies is that their peak horsepower occurs at a higher speed than other articulateds.

I still have difficulty thinking of 2-leading-wheel engines as high-speed designs. The Allegheny, however, was a design more suited to fast freight than the coal drags it usually hauled.

 

[CRed]

Give me a DM&IR Yellowstone any day,love those things!When I go to the train museum here in Duluth I just get a feeling of complete awe looking at the one they have.And to think they were still working a few years before I was born and I just missed them.

I am completely miffed as to why no one has made a plastic model of one.Every thread I have ever read about a model people would like to see in plastic,the DM&IR M4 Yellowstone is mentioned often.

Chris

 

[bigsteel]

sumpter,i meant that sinc the engines are pulling AGAINST each other,that much force i figured may break the couplers,but i could be wrong.but this is turning into a cool thread! i think we all agree that it would be pretty cool to see lets say big boy VS yellow stone,alleghany VS class A,challenger VS alleghany,2-6-6-2 VS class A,and any other big locos duke it out to find out who really is the best at what they do! either way they'd still be AWESOME engines and id love to see'um all!--josh

 

[nkp174]

I still have difficulty thinking of 2-leading-wheel engines as high-speed designs. The Allegheny, however, was a design more suited to fast freight than the coal drags it usually hauled.

That is because of the high speed two wheel lead truck. If I recall, it was developed by Lima (if not, it was the AMC). Prior to that their were limitations on running 2-x-x at speeds. Afterwards, it wasn't an issue. I know for a fact that a certain 2-8-4 with such a lead truck has pulled 34 passenger cars at 85mph through the mountains. Interestingly, the ride was actually smoother at 85mph than it is at 50mph. That "stunt" occurred at the "request" of a railroad official.

Therefore, I have no problem thinking of 2-wheel lead trucks as fast...so long as it was a modern design. I'd be very scared of riding a LS&MS 2-6-2 on the 20th century limited.

The biggest advantage that a modern 4-x-x had over a 2-x-x was that the first 2 axles bear the brunt of the wear and tear. A challenger won't wear its #1 drivers as quickly as a C&O T-1...despite their very similar specs.

Edit: I do agree that couplers get broken sometimes, although I also agree that it is rare. We'll all just have to wait for the DM&IR Yellowstones to come out in Die Cast from MMI. We also could use some Die Cast UP 4-12-2s (my favorite UP engines...so cool)